AK hate
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Commissar Gribb
Member
I own a Maadi right now (as seen in the gratuitous AK porn thread). Smooth trigger/ no slap at all. It's gotta be one of the cheapest made guns I've owned but I dont ever see myself selling it. In a bind it's compact and handy enough to do what it was designed for and effectively!
As for Mojo sights, I've gotten used to the commie sights- I dont think I would do any better (or as well for that matter) with peeps on an AK. The AK is not a slow fire marksmanship rifle, and I think it doesnt need that kind of sighting set up. A red dot or some commie sights do the job fine.
chopinbloc
Member
uh, that's not why i bought my ak. bought it 'cause i couldn't afford an ar. now i've bought two ars and it's time to buy another ak. this time because i like the ak as well. you would be luck to hit a human sized silhouette at three hundred meters with most aks in the best of conditions, let alone field conditions where the enemy is not so kind as to stand out in the open with his entire torso exposed and hold still for ten seconds.
try hitting your enemy's heel or elbow at 75 meters with an ak. not as likely and not as repeatable, especially from the odd positions you will be forced to take in the field. that's why many people like an ar - because they know that if they can see it, they can probably hit it.
don't get me wrong, aks are lots of fun and i love mine to death (literally, i have to get it rebarreled
) but i'm tired of people saying that x is the ultimate weapon system and can do anything that y can do but better and only stupid people have a y. look: buy a rifle when you can, buy an ak when you have the money, then buy an ar when you have the money, then get an m1a or fal or both, then start over with the ak. rifles are fun and they all have their strong points.Having a rifle with an effective range at least twice that of the cartridge is just one of the things I never understood with the fascination with the AR, but to each his own I guess.
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Its better than having a gun that can only shoot 200 yards with a cartridge that will do 500 yards. (ie the Ak)
Pat
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Its better than having a gun that can only shoot 200 yards with a cartridge that will do 500 yards. (ie the Ak)
Pat
Commissar Gribb
Member
or MAYBE THEY BOTH HAVE THEIR OWN NICHES OF ABILITY!
AK - loud, robust, clunky and powerful. Like a hammer.
AR - balanced, refined, and precise. Like a katana
both very nice rifles. I would suggest either.
MTMilitiaman
Member
I like the way you think.
Maybe I have fallen victim to the age old condition of looking at every problem like a nail because my only tool is a "hammer."
Still, I have no desire to own an AR. My brother has been through 3 of them since basic and not a single one has worked right. The armorer even gave up on one of them. He's not the only one in his platoon to have problems either. In fact, of all the people I know who have been in the Army or Marines, the only one express satisfaction with the AR grew up in a Mormon household in Park City, Utah and didn't have enough experience with firearms elsewhere to form a basis for comparrison. All the Montana country boys I know who grow up shooting since before they reach kindergarten have all expressed mild dissatisfaction to intense burning hatred for the rifle. My brother called me last week and said if the armorer can't or doesn't fix his rifle this time in, he's going to bang it on the ground until it breaks in half and take the Article 15. As opposed to a folded flag, I can't blame him. And when the only people I know personally and trust can't say much good about the rifle for its intended purpose, well, you can't blame me for not being anxious to get my paws on one. My brother has stated he'd rather have his WASR than the M4 he's currently issued so until someone forces me to shoot an M4, I think I am going to take his word for it and save myself the hassle. I know AKs work and I seem to be able to hit things with them, at least until my conditions, so it's all good.
Maybe I have fallen victim to the age old condition of looking at every problem like a nail because my only tool is a "hammer."
Still, I have no desire to own an AR. My brother has been through 3 of them since basic and not a single one has worked right. The armorer even gave up on one of them. He's not the only one in his platoon to have problems either. In fact, of all the people I know who have been in the Army or Marines, the only one express satisfaction with the AR grew up in a Mormon household in Park City, Utah and didn't have enough experience with firearms elsewhere to form a basis for comparrison. All the Montana country boys I know who grow up shooting since before they reach kindergarten have all expressed mild dissatisfaction to intense burning hatred for the rifle. My brother called me last week and said if the armorer can't or doesn't fix his rifle this time in, he's going to bang it on the ground until it breaks in half and take the Article 15. As opposed to a folded flag, I can't blame him. And when the only people I know personally and trust can't say much good about the rifle for its intended purpose, well, you can't blame me for not being anxious to get my paws on one. My brother has stated he'd rather have his WASR than the M4 he's currently issued so until someone forces me to shoot an M4, I think I am going to take his word for it and save myself the hassle. I know AKs work and I seem to be able to hit things with them, at least until my conditions, so it's all good.
thereisnospoon
Member
Deep Blue....Thanks!
As to AK vs. AR, the truth is IF I ever really needed a rifle, I would pass up both the AR and the AK for my M14S, but that's just me. That doesn't mean that this AK will not find a loving place in my fun collection
As to AK vs. AR, the truth is IF I ever really needed a rifle, I would pass up both the AR and the AK for my M14S, but that's just me. That doesn't mean that this AK will not find a loving place in my fun collection
AK in 5.56 or 5.45 = longer range robust hammer.
I have enormous respect for the durability and reliability of the AK. Plainly put, I have never seen one that didn't work.
Having said that, I can't hit crap with one. I have owned three and shot many others, so I say this with a fair amount of experience.
Glad you like the AK.
Having said that, I can't hit crap with one. I have owned three and shot many others, so I say this with a fair amount of experience.
Glad you like the AK.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Actually, for many people of average means, the point of getting your first "AK" is to get a decent full-capacity detachable-magazine rifle when you cannot afford to spend even $400, never mind the $750 plus for an AR.
I'd love to have an AR (a 16" AR is on my daydream wish list, next to the Volvo S40T5 and the Sunfish), but my six-year-old son is a special-needs kid. When cardiac angioplasties are so common as to become almost routine (he's had seven angioplasties and two open-hearts in 6 years), you're blessed if you're able to afford ANY 30-round carbine, never mind a Rock River M4gery with an Eotech or whatever.
An AK lookalike gives you 80% or more of the capability of an AR at less than half the price, which looks pretty good when your choices are AK vs. SKS rather than AK vs. AR.
cidirkona
Member
The only problem my converted wasr10 has ever had is emptying my ammo-fund - although at a much slower rate than the ARs or Cetme...
-Colin
-Colin
I'm of the opinion that anyone on a budget should have at least 1 Ar and 1 Ak, simply out of principle. Those of us with more financial freedoms should have more than 1 of each, and help our poor friends get them. Can't let the grabbers win, now can we?
I bought my AK several years ago but my first evil rifle was a Colt H-Bar. I now have 3 AR's and just the one AK but the AK is still probably my favorite of the bunch. If you want a fun lead slinger especillay while bump firing the AK is the one to go with.
As far as cheap I am not to sure about that, as a basic rifle it is cheap. I have a picture of my AK on page 1 of the gratuitous AK porn thread, as it is pictured I have about $1100 in it. That is about what I have invested in my Bushmaster M-4 and Colt H-Bar each.
As far as cheap I am not to sure about that, as a basic rifle it is cheap. I have a picture of my AK on page 1 of the gratuitous AK porn thread, as it is pictured I have about $1100 in it. That is about what I have invested in my Bushmaster M-4 and Colt H-Bar each.
Even better than the AK is the SKS that takes AK mags!
Still cheap ammo and mags.
Only with the SKS, you CAN hit a torso-sized target at 300 yards without too much of a problem.
I do it all the time at the Old Fort GUn Club in Fort Smith. I do it from field positions, too, not off the bench.
My SKS-M isn't going to win any NRA Highpower matches.
But hey, for a rifle that cost me $225, whaddya want?
Bang.
hillbilly
Still cheap ammo and mags.
Only with the SKS, you CAN hit a torso-sized target at 300 yards without too much of a problem.
I do it all the time at the Old Fort GUn Club in Fort Smith. I do it from field positions, too, not off the bench.
My SKS-M isn't going to win any NRA Highpower matches.
But hey, for a rifle that cost me $225, whaddya want?
Bang.
hillbilly
I am getting ready to buy my third AK with ideas of buying a fourth and fifth at least. I started off with a Norinco that I eventually had to sell right after my divorce to pay my bills. I have a WASR10 and a Polish underfolder. I now want an AK74 and am definitely buying a Krinkov.
In addition to those I have a couple HK91s, an STG58 (FAL), M1A, several M1s and a bunch of ARs.
If I could only have one, it would be an AR. If the SHTF and I reached in my safe to grab a rifle to defend my life, it would be an AR. If I had to walk away from my home with the stuff I could carry on my back, I would be carrying an AR. To me, this isn't even a question.
AKs are fun. I enjoy owning them. I shoot them frequently. However, I look at them just like I look at Hi-Point handguns. Made from crude materials. Mediocre accuracy. Extremely poor ergonomics.
Again, I am not trying to put them down, but when I read self rightous posts pitting X against Y or posts implying that we can only pick one or the other, or posts suggesting that you are either with me or against me, I have to chime in with my two cents. The vast majority of the time, when I do chime in, it is more than an off the cuff comment based on something I heard or read somewhere. It is personal experience. YMMV.
"Only with the SKS, you CAN hit a torso-sized target at 300 yards without too much of a problem."
The SKS can do better than that. I shot my Russian SKS in our local clubs vintage semi-auto match last month and took 5th out of over 40 shooters. The furthest target was at 400 yards and was considerably smaller than a human torso. Next month, I am shooting the WASR10. I normally shoot an M1, but like to experiment once in awhile. In these matches out to 400 yards, these 7.62x39 rifles are definitely competitive although the rainbow trajectory of the round makes it difficult on some stages where you have targets at 200,300,400 as an example: you set your rear sight for the 400 yard target and then you are holding way under the 200. But, it is definitely fun. Heck, I even shot this match once with an M1 carbine :banghead:
Just to throw some crap into the game: if the SHTF and I had to grab a rifle out of my safe, I would take the AK before I would take the M1 in .30-06. The M1 would be one of the last rifles I would take. I may even take a shotgun before the M1.
That being said, on the range, the M1 is a dream to shoot. One of my faviorite rifles, but IMO, not much of a combat rifle compared to the other stuff I have sitting next to it in the safe. That 8 round enbloc clip is an idea who's time came and went (long ago).
In addition to those I have a couple HK91s, an STG58 (FAL), M1A, several M1s and a bunch of ARs.
If I could only have one, it would be an AR. If the SHTF and I reached in my safe to grab a rifle to defend my life, it would be an AR. If I had to walk away from my home with the stuff I could carry on my back, I would be carrying an AR. To me, this isn't even a question.
AKs are fun. I enjoy owning them. I shoot them frequently. However, I look at them just like I look at Hi-Point handguns. Made from crude materials. Mediocre accuracy. Extremely poor ergonomics.
Again, I am not trying to put them down, but when I read self rightous posts pitting X against Y or posts implying that we can only pick one or the other, or posts suggesting that you are either with me or against me, I have to chime in with my two cents. The vast majority of the time, when I do chime in, it is more than an off the cuff comment based on something I heard or read somewhere. It is personal experience. YMMV.
"Only with the SKS, you CAN hit a torso-sized target at 300 yards without too much of a problem."
The SKS can do better than that. I shot my Russian SKS in our local clubs vintage semi-auto match last month and took 5th out of over 40 shooters. The furthest target was at 400 yards and was considerably smaller than a human torso. Next month, I am shooting the WASR10. I normally shoot an M1, but like to experiment once in awhile. In these matches out to 400 yards, these 7.62x39 rifles are definitely competitive although the rainbow trajectory of the round makes it difficult on some stages where you have targets at 200,300,400 as an example: you set your rear sight for the 400 yard target and then you are holding way under the 200. But, it is definitely fun. Heck, I even shot this match once with an M1 carbine :banghead:
Just to throw some crap into the game: if the SHTF and I had to grab a rifle out of my safe, I would take the AK before I would take the M1 in .30-06. The M1 would be one of the last rifles I would take. I may even take a shotgun before the M1.
That being said, on the range, the M1 is a dream to shoot. One of my faviorite rifles, but IMO, not much of a combat rifle compared to the other stuff I have sitting next to it in the safe. That 8 round enbloc clip is an idea who's time came and went (long ago).thereisnospoon
Member
444
Now here I am trying to unite the shooters of the high road over the AK rifle and you have to go and start a mudslinging contest about the venerable M1...I am very sure you have hacked off a lot of people (possibly even Art's gramma) with those incindiary words...
Now here I am trying to unite the shooters of the high road over the AK rifle and you have to go and start a mudslinging contest about the venerable M1...I am very sure you have hacked off a lot of people (possibly even Art's gramma) with those incindiary words...
Different strokes for different folks. I respect 444s opinion a bunch, and he is one of the guys on this board that actually shoots a lot , however the first gun I would pull out of the safe in an emergency is my AK.
I've gone through a bunch of ARs, and have even built my own. They are great guns, but probably because of some mental defect, I keep going back to either the AK or the FAL.
With that said, the vast vast vast majority of AKs do not shoot nearly as well as an AR. The AR shoots softer, and far more accurately. The AR sights are hugely superior, (buckhorn sights are a tool of the devil). The AR ergos are better for 95% of the people out there, except for us mutants who can operate the safety lever with our trigger finger.
With that said, the AK that I use is not a standard AK. I use a customized Vepr K in 3gun competition. I run Krebs A2 style iron sights. And I do okay with it. So I suppose the reason that I would go for it first is that I have a huge amount of trigger time on this particular type of gun. It is just what works for me.
See, no need for hate. Group hug.
, however the first gun I would pull out of the safe in an emergency is my AK. I've gone through a bunch of ARs, and have even built my own. They are great guns, but probably because of some mental defect, I keep going back to either the AK or the FAL.
With that said, the vast vast vast majority of AKs do not shoot nearly as well as an AR. The AR shoots softer, and far more accurately. The AR sights are hugely superior, (buckhorn sights are a tool of the devil). The AR ergos are better for 95% of the people out there, except for us mutants who can operate the safety lever with our trigger finger.
With that said, the AK that I use is not a standard AK. I use a customized Vepr K in 3gun competition. I run Krebs A2 style iron sights. And I do okay with it. So I suppose the reason that I would go for it first is that I have a huge amount of trigger time on this particular type of gun. It is just what works for me.
See, no need for hate. Group hug.
Father Knows Best,
I have an ultimak mounted on my SAR 1 and wonder if I can co-witness the irons through the Kobra holo sight? Do you know if this is possible?
I have a Hakko holo-sight on my bushie and have no probs sighting with the the irons through it, if I want, but the Hakko sits too high on the ultimak to achieve the same results on the Romanian.
Thanks,
SatKong
I have an ultimak mounted on my SAR 1 and wonder if I can co-witness the irons through the Kobra holo sight? Do you know if this is possible?
I have a Hakko holo-sight on my bushie and have no probs sighting with the the irons through it, if I want, but the Hakko sits too high on the ultimak to achieve the same results on the Romanian.
Thanks,
SatKong
Gordon
Member
I humped an AMD 63 with Ultimak and Aim point and Surefire light on MY own mounting above left side of fron pistol grip , on a Tactical Tailor Single point sling 10 clicks total at 7000ft + this last 4 day weekend I 'only' carried 400 rnds and 4 mags (1 in rifle and 3 on left leg ) and a hydration bladder on my back.
I sighted in the iron sights using a sight tool,('A' at 50 yards) then I installed the Aimpoint on it's Arms m-68 mount and sighted it in at about 75 yards.It cowitnesses aalittle above the front sight. I could hit an empty adult beverage can at 50 yards( I humped in ((full)))
every time after this procedure with the 4moa Aimpoint dot and humped back with 20 rounds, incase of bears
this unit seems capable of about 4" at 100 yards prone, and can just hose them in at 25 yards which is the distance I will be 'operating' at the weekend of 12-14 of Oct, under the auspices of mssrs Louis Awerbuck & Scott Reitz in the "Vehicle Defense Course" . I had to check the system, and it's 'all good'!!!
I 'only' carried 400 rnds and 4 mags (1 in rifle and 3 on left leg ) and a hydration bladder on my back. I sighted in the iron sights using a sight tool,('A' at 50 yards) then I installed the Aimpoint on it's Arms m-68 mount and sighted it in at about 75 yards.It cowitnesses aalittle above the front sight. I could hit an empty adult beverage can at 50 yards( I humped in ((full)))
every time after this procedure with the 4moa Aimpoint dot and humped back with 20 rounds, incase of bears this unit seems capable of about 4" at 100 yards prone, and can just hose them in at 25 yards
which is the distance I will be 'operating' at the weekend of 12-14 of Oct, under the auspices of mssrs Louis Awerbuck & Scott Reitz in the "Vehicle Defense Course" . I had to check the system, and it's 'all good'!!! Father Knows Best
Member
+1. I've had a few AR's. I sold 'em. I now own and love an AK (Arsenal SA M7), a FAL (DSA SA58 Para carbine), a G3 (PTR-91) and a couple of M1's (USGI). I'd take any of them over an AR. In a SHTF situation, I would grab the AK.
I don't own a VEPR, but that's only because the gun fund is empty right now. I'm very impressed with them, and plan on getting one.
Father Knows Best
Member
Unfortunately, I don't know the answer. I have a Kobra 8-02 holosight on my Arsenal SA M7, but it's mounted via the receiver side rail. It sits too high to cowitness the irons, and too low to see the irons under it, so the irons are useless with the Kobra mounted. The good news is that I can remove the Kobra in about a second by just flipping the lever and sliding it off, so getting to the irons is quick and easy. I removed and remounted it several times and it doesn't seem to affect the zero at all.
I've heard from others who say that an advantage of the Ultimak mount is that it lets the optics sit lower. At least one poster on this board has talked about his AK with a red dot mounted via an Ultimak, and says he can cowitness the irons through the red dot. If that's important to you, search a little bit and you'll probably find his posts.
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