AK in 223

[Phineas Dregg]

I would really like a 223 rifle (I like the wide variety of ammo and US manufacturers). I would also really like an AK. I know that Arsenal makes one, and I've seen very positive reviews about them. I'm concerned however with owning an oddball. Are any of the parts exchangable with an AK-74 or AK-47? I'm not as worried about the magazines as I am the internal parts (hammer, disconnector, firing pins, extractors, etc.). My main concern is repairing the rifle after a possible renewed "Assault Rifle" Ban.

 

[akolleth]

Well a few of the internal parts are going to be interchangable, some not. The ones that will be interchangable are the hammer, disconnect, trigger, axis pins, and the springs. Those that are not will be the bolt/carrier and ejector, those are specific in size to a caliber.

 

[Phineas Dregg]

thanks. that makes sense.

 

[Tirod]

AK parts aren't that interchangeable. Different countries didn't toe the line on the blueprints and certain variations are distinct. So the issue of parts still stands.

Valmet made a 5.56 version in the 80's, shot nice, was a little heavy compared to the AR. They are hard to find now, but there are others.

 

[Zanad]

try siaga

that arsenal you mention is really a conversion from the saiga .223. the "unconverted" ak saiga as some people call it, is about haf the cost of a arsenal.

http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga.htm

as to interchangabilaty, I'd be repeating what the last few guys said.

 

[Phineas Dregg]

thanks again. Actually, Arsenal's 762 and 545 are Saiga's. Their 556 is Bulgarian (at least, the ones sold at K-VAR are). I would really like a Russian 223, but I'm not sure I'm up to the conversion process.

 

[BFWE]

AK parts aren't that interchangeable. Different countries didn't toe the line on the blueprints and certain variations are distinct. So the issue of parts still stands.

Valmet made a 5.56 version in the 80's, shot nice, was a little heavy compared to the AR. They are hard to find now, but there are others.

Little known fact, when the Israelis designed the Galil, they started with a Valmet. In fact, the early issue Galil's have Valment receivers and Israel bought a license to make a copy of the Valmet receiver for their rifle.

 

[nalioth]

thanks again. Actually, Arsenal's 762 and 545 are Saiga's. Their 556 is Bulgarian (at least, the ones sold at K-VAR are). I would really like a Russian 223, but I'm not sure I'm up to the conversion process.

It sounds like you need to do more resarch, to me.

Arsenal sells Bulgarian made 5.45x39, 5.56x45 and 7.62x39 Kalashnikov variants, and has for years.
Their Saiga line is a very recent addition to their product line.

As far as the conversion process, if you can change your car's oil, you can convert a Saiga. It is as easy as falling off a log while drunk. You can even save some money doing it yourself, too.

 

[sturmgewehr]

I wouldn't worry too much about spare parts. AKs last forever, and the Arsenals are the best quality AKs out there. Buy a spare spring kit and a firing pin if you feel the need and put them away. Chances are you'll never need them.

 

[kaferhaus]

Spend the extra couple bills and buy a AR.... then you can shoot at quarters at 100m instead of pie plates.

I own 2 AKs and they're fun to shoot, but I enjoy hitting what I'm aiming at better.

 

[GunTech]

No one mentioned Galil? There's the CAI Golani which is decent but lacks a chrome bore, or you can use a builder like Tenngalil and have one built up using all mil parts. The originals are about 3x the cost of an Arsenal.

 

[nalioth]

and the Arsenals are the best [strike]quality[/strike] marketed AKs out there.

Fixed.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Norinco 84S/Mak 90 in .223/5.56 shares some parts with the standard AK (including bolt carrier and piston if I recall correctly.. the bolt iself is quite different.) It can also use AK-74 mags if you only load 20 rounds, though RobArm followers will let them hold 30. Down side is 30rd steel magazines are pricey when you can find them and many require a beefier firing pin spring--they can slam fire due to a weak spring.

 

[nalioth]

It can also use AK-74 mags if you only load 20 rounds, though RobArm followers will let them hold 30.

Myth.

The geometry of the 5.45x39 magazine precludes high functionality when using other cartridges in it. Most folks can get 10 or so .223 rounds to function out of their AK74 mags, but too many more induces a cartridge jam inside the mag. This is the primary reason SAR-3 and WASR-3 rifles got their early bad reputation, as Century shipped painted AK74 mags marked ".223" on their buttplates with quite a few (paint and special butt plates don't change geometry, either).

No "magic follower" is going to change the shape of the mag, or cartridges not designed to fit it.

Also, are you aware that Robinson hasn't sold these "magic followers" for years?
Edit: Robinson Armament manufactured these "magic followers" due to their importation of .223 VEPRs. At that time of importation, the only .223 AK mags available were the ones imported with each gun (it was a long time ago). The manufacturing of the followers allowed for owners (at the time) to use the cheap and available East German 5.45x39 magazines (where "use" means "could get some .223 rounds to feed from it"). Nowadays, we have quite a few .223 AK mag options that don't involve using magazines designed for another cartridge.

 

[caribou]

Ive fitted Plastic Galil 35rd Orlite mags to my Siaga(after conversion) and my Romak (no fuss with the gun at all) by sanding down the top of the reinforcment ribs that go into the mag well. Not much at all, and they lockup tight and are perfectly reliable. Best thing is I got 100 mags for 200$ ....maby 3 years ago....??
Also, E.German .223 steel "SAR-3" mags lockup and work great in the romys too.
I also have a couple Chinese type 84's and the thickness of the reciver is 1/2 again ove rthe Romy or Russian. The .223Chinese mags are built like tanks, but wont interchange with any others.
In fact I think the Chinese and Bulgarian AKs are close, like the Russian and Romy's....when it comes to parts fitting and barrel shank size.

 

[nalioth]

Also, E.German .223 steel "SAR-3" mags lockup and work great in the romys too.

Those are actually "Weiger weapon system" magazines. They just happen to fit the Romanian .223 AKs (of which the SAR-3 is one of).

 

[Dr.Rob]

Myth? My Norinco rifle functions with AK74 mags unmodified and 20 rds. The Robarm followers don't always let you get a full 30, but they work.

This is ONLY true for Norinco rifles, no other brands.

 

[nalioth]

Myth? My Norinco rifle functions with AK74 mags unmodified and 20 rds. The Robarm followers don't always let you get a full 30, but they work.

This is ONLY true for Norinco rifles, no other brands.

I think it's more magazine than rifle.

Some folks who use .223 in their AK74 mags can't get 10 rounds to feed w/o issues, while some report getting a full 30 to run. It depends on what day and time Ivan made the magazine (and how much it's within spec). Regardless, you can't expect 100% functionality running the wrong cartridge in a magazine. even with a "magic follower".

 

[christcorp]

I definitely will stick with my Saiga .223. My preferred caliber, with having the reliability of an AK. And instead of all these AK .223 magazine options, I simply bought a Renegadebuck Saiga/AR15 magazine adapter. Now I simply use AR15 magazines. Works perfectly. Very inexpensive. Simple to modify and install. Now, I really get the best of both worlds. The .223 caliber... A Saiga, which is a REAL RUSSIAN Weapon made at the same plant as their military AK rifles..... And now, using AR15/M16 magazines. Which I can buy for $5 and up, and tons available.

 

[johnny v]

My romanian .223 is very accurate and is quite reliable. Although ammo choice is a major factor.i have had excellent results with wolf full metal jackets.the cheaper the better it seems.i had problems jamming at first . I solved this is in my piston tube.this must have a perfect fit when reassembled. If not you will jam after a few rounds.i cut thin strips of leather to seal this for no leaks.i never jam, i dont care what mag i use.people claim they have to much mag wobble.mine seems to wobble a bit. But has not interfeared with the guns reliability.all in all i like mine and would not get rid of it. Fun to shoot and very accurate too.would like to locate some more mags though. Cant find hem around here anywhere

 

[stubbicatt]

If you can find one of the Yugo M95 kits that were imported a few years ago and snag one of those to build, I think you will be pleased. I really like mine.

That and they are a "limited edition" so to speak.

 

[wally]

Here is a photo of a Bakelite AK74 mag (the one Century shipped with my SAR-3) loaded with .223 and the Weiger mag I found later which cured all the function problems.

Notice how little of the primer shows on the top round compared to how it should be in the black Weiger mag. With the base of the round sitting this low often the bolt catches the extraction groove causing a "bolt over base" jam.

The root cause of this is the rounds don't stack right because the mag geometry is wrong. When it comes to AKs, don't doubt Nalioth.