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AK platform for 3 gun?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by 686+, Mar 29, 2008.

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  1. 686+

    686+ Member

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    I am gearing up for 3G again and wanted to figure out if an AK platform is accurate enough to run?
     
  2. azhunter12

    azhunter12 Member

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    Some people on the Saiga forum are using their conversions for 3gun.
     
  3. jpwilly

    jpwilly Member

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    They aren't as accurate as AR's but as far as Saiga's go they are tops in the accuracy dept for an AK. They shoot 2-3MOA from what I've heard.
     
  4. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    I wouldn't hesitate at all to use my .223 Saiga for 3-gun.
     
  5. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    I don't think that is an issue with 3-gun.

    There's some folks discussing on theakforum.net about how they showed the AR folks up with their AKs at some 3-gun and other tactical matches.
     
  6. kcmarine

    kcmarine Member

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    After which, they yelled, "We have achieved victory over the Capitalist pigs, comrades! I dedicate this victory of the Communist ideal to the glory of the State and the Motherland! Off to Havana! Soyuz nerushimy respublik svobodnykh..."


    Ah. Just kidding. Though it would be utterly epic if that's what happened...
     
  7. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    Nonsense, KC. They simply play the Russian National Anthem while chugging a few pints of room-temp beer.
     
  8. kcmarine

    kcmarine Member

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    Vodka. Beer is made by capitalist pigs in St. Louis.:D
     
  9. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Almost nobody runs AKs in 3-Gun. I've shot the RM3G Nationals in Raton for 4 of the last 5 years and I don't remember seeing any (besides the Saiga shotguns-- but we're talking rifles).

    We have a "AK vs. AR" match once a year where shooters who choose to do so shoot an iron sighted AR-15 and then a stock AK on assault courses from contact distance to 425 yards. These are some of the best "practical" rifle shooters in the country-- in part because of this match series (it's monthly-- only AK/AR once a year), they will usually place amongst the top on any long-range rifle stages at major 3Gun matches.

    I posted some points from the match in this thread AK vs AR
     
  10. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    I know a ton of guys who shoot the saiga, but Zak is correct here, I don't ever recall seeing a rifle in the mix. However that leads up to another question; has anyone ever tried it?
     
  11. 686+

    686+ Member

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    Your all are just confirming what I had a sneaking suspicion about: the AK sure looks like it's very usefull, but not really very practical.

    I would love to have one but unless it will be a good and accurate rifle out to 200 yards why bother? Yeah, they are way cool looking but 2moa sounds like all you can hope for with a standard of 3-4moa. At 4moa I doubt I could hit anything past 200 yards.

    Still might get a variant to round out my "collection".

    So now I wonder what other rifle to get that will run the intermediate power level cartidges?
     
  12. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    I've shot a couple of 3gun matches with my Galil, just for yucks, The fact of the matter is that UI on the AK sucks compared to the AR. Mag changes are a real pain and require two hands. With the AR and a Redi-Mag, swapping out a mag is blazing fast. The Galil at least has better sights than the standard AK, and shoot quite a bit better than a stock AK on those longer targets.

    YMMV
     
  13. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    With respect...

    ...you are doing it wrong.


    Keep hold of your pistol grip, reach and grab your fresh mag from your pouch.

    Use the fresh mag to sweep the mag release and knock the depleted mag away from the rifle.

    Lock the new mag in place.

    (optional) Reach over or under and rack the charging handle.

    Continue your range activities.



    If you're not interested in it, you won't practice and it'll always be "a pain".
     
  14. jpwilly

    jpwilly Member

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    nalioth, I do think accuracy matters when engaging out to 400yrds. Also the UI, like others have said, just isn't as good. Plus, if Zack Smith said they suck for 3 gun I'm going to believe him. Doesn't mean you can't try though.
     
  15. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    Well, since we're throwing big names around, Gabe Saurez over at warriortalk has discovered the Kalashnikov and is singing its virtues.

    ( anyway, this is becoming another AR vs AK thread )
     
  16. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    "Bad sights"?

    Learn to use them, or hell grab a Kobra or POSP. I love my Saiga and am horribly comfortable with it. Mag changes just require practice, that's all.

    Don't call it quits just because some guy with a lot of suppressed toys sites a source where it didn't work for other people. Try it yourself and formulate your own conclusions.
     
  17. GeezerwithGuns

    GeezerwithGuns Member

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    I have a very well built RPK with a new barrel and heavy receiver that is proving to be quite accurate, however, at almost 10 lbs it is a little heavy to lug around (even without a drum magazine!).
     
  18. ants

    ants Member

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    I think we should encourage Saiga and other AK owners to join 3-gun. The more the merrier. Anyone with USPSA-legal equipment is encouraged to join and have fun with us. That includes owners of AR, AK, Mini-14, M-14, M1 and all other rifle platforms.

    2-3 MOA won't cut it on a long-range stage. Many clubs only have short bays or only choose short, compact stages. But others (including many Regionals and Nationals) include long-range stages up to 330 yards. 2-3 MOA won't cut it on a 10" or 6" target at that range.

    I suspect that most competitors choose the AR platform because it has so many, many options and parts and accessories available. Your competition guns must fit you and suit you. It's easier to do that when you have thousands of parts, options and accessories from which to choose.
     
  19. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    To clarify, I'm not ripping on the AK. It is what it is. I am also for people trying things for themselves to learn things first-hand. However, the lessons I copied from the other thread in post #9 have been repeated for several years, with somewhat different sets of skilled rifle shooters- some with a lot of AK experience, some with less. Learning some others' experience is a way to save time and money.

    On close-range stages where accuracy is not very important, the AK can be competitive since it's mostly how fast the shooter can run the gun (that's where I said, "At other than across-the-room distances"). Even then, the more reloads matter, the more advantage will go to the AR. Once you get into intermediate to long range (ie, long range for 3Gun) targets, the stock AR leaves the stock AK in the dust because of: sights, trigger, and mechanical accuracy.

    -z
     
  20. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    I'll race you - AR versus AK. :)
     
  21. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    I can't keep my AK shouldered if only holding it by the pistol grip, due to my spindly nature and the AKs nose-heavy balance.
     
  22. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    If your stages are 100 yards or less, an AK with a red dot can be surprisingly competitive, though your splits will be slower due to the greater muzzle rize, and mag changes are somewhat slower. Our local range runs mostly short stages, and I shoot my AK (SAR-1) in those. An optic is a must, though.

    Trap the stock in the crook of your shoulder, or (worst case) under your armpit (pull the rifle back with the right hand).

    A 16" barreled, 1mm stamped receiver AK is lighter up front than a 20" AR or a 16" with a medium/heavy barrel, though an AR with a government profile barrel is lighter still.

    BTW, here's what a fast AK reload with no retention should look like:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz5LPaMhlOc
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2008
  23. skinewmexico

    skinewmexico Member

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    I think it would be fun to run an AK. And somewhere in there, 3 gun should be about fun. That said, I use an AR, because we always have a long distance stage, with bonus targets at 400 and 500m.
     
  24. R127

    R127 Member

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    It is about fun. At 400 to 500 yards 5.56x45 has ballistics similar to what .22lr or .22mag have at close range. Could it kill with great shot placement? Yes. Through light cover, armor, a lot of gear, etc? Probably not. Game performance against paper does not necessarily translate into real world performance against targets that shoot back. AR's have been built for games for many years now and AK's are not built to compete in those games. If you want to play baseball you bring a baseball bat not a hockey stick. There are a number of AK's right now that can do well at long range like Veprs and Arsenals, especially the ones chambered for calibers like .223 or .308. The lack of match grade 7.62x39 in this country hurts the achievable accuracy of rifles chambered for that cartridge though many people have done well with handloads.
     
  25. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    Under stress it seems like a lot of people, even with this technique, add an extra step "fumble with magazine, missing mag well entirely or messing up the rocking/locking motion."

    I'm willing to believe that with lots of practice a guy can get pretty good at this technique, but it's one of those situations where the AK shooter is chasing the speed an AR (or various other weapons) can do, and where an entry level shooter can get much better/faster with the AR for the same amount of training time/effort.
     
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