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(AK) skier shoots moose

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by spacemanspiff, Mar 20, 2004.

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  1. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    http://www.adn.com/front/story/4870148p-4805649c.html.

    Michael Vogel feared for his life a year ago, when a moose charged him on the Coastal Trail and stomped on his face, temporarily blinding him and smashing several bones.

    So after doctors put him back together, he began carrying a gun to protect himself on his daily runs or skis.

    Wednesday night, Vogel met another moose trotting toward him at close range while he was skiing on the Coastal Trail in Kincaid Park, about a mile below the chalet.

    This time, Vogel pulled a .44-caliber Smith & Wesson revolver from his fanny pack and shot it.

    The moose was injured and backed away. About two hours later, state Fish and Game biologist Rick Sinnott tracked blood spatters down the trail and into the woods and found the moose lying about 45 yards from the site of the shooting. Sinnott killed her with a shotgun slug.

    Sinnott was critical of Vogel's decision to shoot a moose in one of the city's most used parks. Pepper spray would work, he said. "It's a lot cheaper than a gun too."

    The moose was one that had been collared last winter, and she spent most of her time in Kincaid, Sinnott said. "We approached her many times. She was a reliably calm moose."

    "If Mike saw her 25 yards ahead, he had lots of room to ski off trail around her," Sinnott said in an e-mail to the Daily News. "When she stood up and started walking toward him, he had time to turn around and retreat down the trail."

    The dog probably complicated matters, Sinnott said.

    Vogel said Friday that there had been no time and nowhere to go.

    He had come down the hill from the chalet and was in the flat area between miles 8 and 8.5 on the trail, Vogel said.

    At first it seemed like this encounter might be benign. Vogel saw the moose bedded down on the trail about 30 yards away. He stopped and put his Chesapeake Bay retriever, Katmai, who was off-leash, on heel at his side, he said.

    The moose stood up and initially started to walk away. But it changed its mind, turned and began trotting toward him, Vogel said. "Then it pinned its ears back, lowered its head and commenced to charge."

    The snow off to the side was too soft to ski on, he said, so he couldn't get off the trail. He didn't want to turn his back on the moose and retreat that way.

    "When the moose was about seven yards away, I shot. Things are happening fast. I fired a second time."

    After the second shot, the moose stopped, and Vogel pondered what to do next. Since the moose was no longer threatening, he decided to go back to the chalet and report what happened, he said.

    Police came before Sinnott got there and interviewed Vogel, who had a proper permit to carry the gun, a police spokesman said. The police report says Vogel "stated he had a ski plan and never thought about turning around on the trail."

    Vogel said he doesn't know where that idea came from. He told police that his plan was to go from the chalet to Point Woronzof, he said. As for turning around, "You are not wise to turn your back to a threat."

    Sinnott described this moose as relaxed in past encounters. Vogel said that wasn't the case Wednesday.

    "This was just an extremely aggressive animal that obviously had no fear of humans," Vogel said. He could think of no reason to explain why the moose charged.

    The first time he was attacked by a moose, in March 2003, Vogel figures he startled the animal, and that's why it came after him. "All of a sudden I was there and it was a big surprise," he said. That incident took place where the trail crosses a creek at the end of the east-west runway of Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport. The moose was browsing near the trail, with a smaller moose a little deeper in. Vogel was running. Since the big moose gave no signs of being bothered, he tried to run by, on the other side of the trail. It ran at him, knocked him over and kicked him in the face.

    Seven bones in Vogel's face broke. At the time, he was blinded in one eye and struggled to cover the 2 ½ miles to the chalet. Later, he learned the moose had kicked his temple into his eye. It took $22,000 worth of surgery, in which doctors rebuilt the bone structure around Vogel's eye with titanium, to repair the damage, he said.

    Vogel, a 47-year-old chemist, is outside doing some form of exercise nearly every day, he said.

    After he recovered from the 2003 attack, he talked to someone at Fish and Game to find out what he could legally do to protect himself.

    It is illegal to fire a gun within city limits except in defense of your property or self, a police spokesman said. It is also illegal to allow a dog to be off-leash in Kincaid, but Vogel said his dog is highly trained, did not bark and stayed at his side.

    Many skiers can recount scary encounters with moose. "I don't want to criticize anybody in this situation," said Tim Stone, a Nordic Ski Association of Anchorage board member, after being told about the incident. "Anybody skiing lately has noticed the moose are sticking close to the trails the last couple of weeks because it's deep."

    Stone said he's been charged but has been able to ski away. "Usually it's kind of a false charge and they stop."

    Skier Tasha Bergt was at the Kincaid chalet shortly after Vogel shot at the moose Wednesday night.

    "It doesn't make me feel that good to have a guy that volatile with a handgun down there," she said. "I mean it's a city park. I'm so upset. ... We don't carry weapons on the trail; we carry our brains."

    Vogel says Fish and Game should get out there and manage the problem. There could be a hunting season, or Fish and Game officers could shoot some of the moose, he said.

    "Anchorage is a city, not a wildlife theme park. Citizens should be able to go to the park without fear of bodily injury."
    =================================


    sounds to me like a 'once bitten twice shy' kind of thing.
    when i walk to work or home, i encounter moose all the time. and each time i fill my palm. they are unpredictable.
    when rollerblading on the same trail Vogel was skiing on (during summer obviously) i've come across 8 moose in a one mile section, one bull, three cows and four calfs. even during summer they stick close to the trails.

    and as far as what tasha bergt has to say, about 'we dont carry weapons we carry brains', i'm sure carrying brains while on the coastal trail instead of weapons has been a contributing factor in all the rapes attempted on users of those bike/ski trails.
     
  2. Snowdog

    Snowdog Member

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    Though an argument can be made about his motives, his previous run-in with a moose does kind of make it difficult to judge the guy....
     
  3. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    It sounds like the moose are the ones that are volatile :rolleyes:

    Sheees .....
     
  4. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    I don't think I can second-guess the guy on this one. Past experience, published danger to others, conditions confirmed by other skiers - sounds like a reasonable act of defence, under the circumstances. Of course, to the tree-huggers, Bambi just wanted a piece of lettuce, but... :rolleyes:
     
  5. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Geez, it's about time they did things right up there. See an animal, shoot it.

    Finally getting some real men up there. About time!
     
  6. ksnecktieman

    ksnecktieman Member

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    Moose at secen yards and he only fired two times? Good shoot, but why did he stop? Then things are BIG:what:
     
  7. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Moose = enormous animal. Want 500 mag, dump all five in moose, THEN "ponder what to do", while reloading!
     
  8. Pendragon

    Pendragon Member

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    My uncle was nearly killed by a cow moose when he was up there fishing.

    He was walking through a field and saw a cow and a calf - the cow charged him and he had nowhere to go - he jumped aside at the last second and lay low in the fireweed.

    He lay there for more than 10 minutes and when he got up, she was only 10-15 yards away and charged again.

    They played cat and mouse for over an hour and he worked his way to some trees. He got away and found a cabin - the person there told him the moose cows get a couple guys there every year and he was very lucky.

    Don't know why he didnt have a gun - my family is from Oregon and he ought to have known better.
     
  9. WilderBill

    WilderBill Member

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    I can't really blame him.
    I would imagine that getting your face stomped is a pretty effective teaching tool. He learned not to trust huge woodland creatures when they come toward him.
     
  10. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Should have had the dog on the leash. He shoudl get summonsed for that.

    I see a doggie running loose in park, Im drawing down on it. It comes up to me, Im shootin it.

    As for Tasha, well sweetie since the public is allowed to carry in city parks maybe I should train on my skis with a Colt Commado on my back. betcha that will make ya all warm and kumbaya inside.


    WildbutitsalaskasotashacansaywhatshewantsAlaska
     
  11. BrokenArrow

    BrokenArrow Member

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    Coulda been just like he said or he could be holding a grudge and this was his first chance to get even with a moose, any moose...

    It's his word against a dead moose. If the story fits, you must aquit! ;)
     
  12. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    Should'a, should'a, should'a, should'a....

    I'd lay the blame right there. There is a reason animals living in the woods are called "wild".
     
  13. Mornard

    Mornard Member

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    I sort of thought folks in AK had a more practical approach to life than this. I thought it was more like "big dangerous animals can hurt you; therefore, we shoot them." Which is OK. in CA, the new state motto seems to be "Come to CA; ride bikes; feed the cougars"
     
  14. Dannyboy

    Dannyboy Member

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    I guess this lady thought he could turn around and outrun the moose. On hard, dry ground it ain't gonna happen. On XC skis, I'd say it's pretty friggin impossible. If people like her are so bent on "common sense" gun laws (assupmtion on my part) why don't they have any common sense?
     
  15. Kodiak AK

    Kodiak AK Member

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    Why do I know the name Mike Vogel?:scrutiny:
     
  16. Gewehr98

    Gewehr98 Member

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    I'm not a tree-hugger by any stretch...


    But this visitor to Fairbanks was walking back to the Captain Bartlett's Inn from that wonderful buffet place on Main Drag Fairbanks one fine summer evening. What should appear out of the brush, but a moose cow, trotting up to not only yours truly, but the rest of the aircrew gaggle that had just partaken of caribou stew, stuffed trout, etc. (Boy, that was good, but I'll be darned if I can remember the name of the place) She was persistent in her mooching, but we had nothing to give her, and I'm not a real big fan of wild animals that have become dependant on sustenance from humans. So we ignored her and continued on our walk. Maybe I should've just shot it, it could've attacked me, ya know. ;)

    Sounds like the guy was looking for an excuse to cap a moose after his face got trompled on the first time. My wife's a bit touchy, too, after getting bit by a dog a decade or so ago. As far as she's concerned, if a given dog even looks at her sideways, it's out to get a piece of her. :(
     
  17. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    Permit? I thought Alaska had gone no restrictions like PA?
     
  18. Kodiak AK

    Kodiak AK Member

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    CCW. Some parts are open carry some are not .
     
  19. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    Moose are unpredictable and dangerous. He's lucky to have survived the first encounter. A big thumbs up to him for having the guts to continue his lifestyle despite the Moose.

    If you encounter a moose on the road, don't blow the car horn. Put it in reverse and back up a hundred yards. If the moose doesn't leave the road in a reasonable amount of time turn the car around and choose another route. If you're on foot or on ski you don't have this luxury, and I think you should consider using Sinnot's option. Fortunately there are few places in the US where Moose exist that don't have somewhat reasonable gun laws (possibly far northern wisconsin?) .
     
  20. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Fella's;

    Have you actually seen a live moose up close? Not only are they 'big', but in this case & more importantly they are long-legged. If indeed the moose was charging & only 7 yards away at the time he shot, IMHO he was less than 2 seconds ( it was in snow, on dry ground less, maybe a lot less than 1 second ) away from getting hit again.

    Perhaps if Bergt gets stomped, she may change her mind, or get one.

    I'da done the same thing I think. And all I'd need is for the dog to decide to go left when I'd decided to go right. Yup, no leash.

    900F
     
  21. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    Nahhhh. The blissninies never get a brain. It's always the fault of the victim in their twisted thinking. The victim didn't act victimish enough is the cause of the problem (again in their twisted thinking). A cringing dead person is much more noble than a person who fights back and lives don't you know:scrutiny:
     
  22. entropy

    entropy Member

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    " Fortunately there are few places in the US where Moose exist that don't have somewhat reasonable gun laws (possibly far northern wisconsin?) ."
    Darn few moose up here, and you'd better have hoof marks on your butt to show the game warden or sheriff. There is no moose season.
    Now those Mud ducks next door in Minnesota (oh ya ya know), there are moose there, but again, you'd better be able to prove you were in fear for your life. When I still lived there, on my one moose hunt (you get one per lifetime, 4 to 6 people on a liscense, only one moose, either bull or cow), I had a moose get up about 10 yards in front of me, in tag alders so thick I could only see a couple small dark patches of fur through the brush. I had my M77 .300Winmag slung, because it was so thick, and had my Redhawk .44 out. It sounded like an Armored division going through the woods!:what: Even with my very stout 300gr XTP handloads, I suddenly felt very undergunned! I'm kinda glad it went away from me instead of coming at me! So I guess I can't blame the guy for firing, my only question is why did he stop at two?:confused:
    FWIW, My Dad shot a nice bull the next morning, and it took 5 200 gr. Partitions from his .300 Winmag Sako, and still went 150 yds. before collapsing!:D
     
  23. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    AK does not require a permit to carry, the Anchorage Daily Worker is, as always, mistaken

    WildpravdaAlaska
     
  24. Kodiak AK

    Kodiak AK Member

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    Wildalaska AK does not require a permit to carry, the Anchorage Daily Worker is, as always, mistaken
    You sure?:scrutiny:
    It is my understanding that for concealed you need a permit . Open carry is OK statewide , but local towns may pass laws against it .Not argueing with ya , I just want to make sure nobody gets thier pig in a poke so to speak .
     
  25. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Its vermont style, no permit rwquired any more (even in Los Anchorage)


    WildurbanAlaskanAlaska
     
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