AK top cover optic mount suggestions

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Jenrick

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To the THR AK brain trust:

I'm looking for a top cover or something that goes over the top cover for an optic mount. I'm familiar with the TWS mount, but have never handled or shot one, just seen it on line. If any one has any suggestions from personal experience I'd appreciate it. I know Kerbs makes one for a pretty penny, but if it works I might go with it.

Thanks in advance,

-Jenrick
 
I've both the TWS and the Parabellum Armament. IMHO the TWS is better if you want a scope, the Parabellum is better for a low profile Red Dot and lower third co-witness with BUIS.

They cost about the same and are similar to install.
 
The plan currently is an EOTech, or possibly an aimpoint (not a micro though). I've considered some type of scope as well but not going to do that for a while.

-Jenrick
 
if you dont have the side rail on your AK.. most newer AKs including saigs have it, then your best bet really is the TWS mount, youre just never going to get the top cover itself to hold zero with any level of reliability without it being hinged to the top somehow and even then i wouldnt trust it to hold zero as well as an AK side mount.. something like this http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/bgprod/7-MIAKSM.jpg
 
Is an Ultimak handguard/rail out of the question?

They work great for a red dot, especially an Aimpoint, as they can be cowitnessed with the iron sights with a low ring.

The sight is up forward, out of the way of both handling and from blocking your vision. The rifle shoulders naturally, with the same cheek weld as your iron sights. Snap shooting is a breeze.
 
I had thought about an Ultimak, but I'm very used to the traditional receiver placement of a sight from running the M16/AR15 family for so long. A scout setup is something I am NOT used to. I may get one at some point to try out, but I'd prefer a receiver mount for now.

-Jenrick
 
I understand how you feel. Id still highly suggest you give the forward mounted red dot a try though. They arent like a "scope", and really dont give any benefit back in your face.

Scopes are a little different, but on the right gun, a scout scope does work very well.
 
I posted recently about my surprise at getting 2moa groups with my TWS/EOTech combo.
Can't say much other than I'm pleased and it's a decision I'd make again and therefor recommend.
Good luck!
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1386650353.743887.jpg ImageUploadedByTapatalk1386650363.602727.jpg
 
well jenrick, would you like a side rail on your AK?.. any AK builder in your area could put one on for you.. if not that id be more inclined to go TWS.. the one that includes the top cover so itll hinge up like a krinkov top cover for field stripping
 
The plan currently is an EOTech, or possibly an aimpoint (not a micro though).

Since either of these will be too tall to co-witness with the irons I'd say get the TWS mount.
 
Since either of these will be too tall to co-witness with the irons I'd say get the TWS mount.
The Aimpoints (Comp M series) will cowitness (lower 1/3) when mounted on a low ring on the Ultimaks.

ry%3D400.jpg

ry%3D400.jpg
 
The Aimpoints (Comp M series) will cowitness (lower 1/3) when mounted on a low ring on the Ultimaks.

I know that, but the OP has already rejected the forward mounted Ultimak mount
 
I know that, but the OP has already rejected the forward mounted Ultimak mount
Theres still time to come to his senses. :D

I do seem to remember that TWS was working on a lower rail set up that would allow cowitness with some things. Did that ever come about?
 
jason41987: I've thought about doing that, but to my knowledge there are no good AK builders in my area. I'd rather not end up with with off kilter.

-Jenrick
 
Theres still time to come to his senses. :D

I do seem to remember that TWS was working on a lower rail set up that would allow cowitness with some things. Did that ever come about?
why would someone want to mount their optics on their forearm, further away from their eye and make the rifle a lot more front heavy when you can just get a side rail or TWS mount, keep the added weight and balance rearward?.. and it wouldnt look as goofy either
 
jason41987: I've thought about doing that, but to my knowledge there are no good AK builders in my area. I'd rather not end up with with off kilter.

-Jenrick
exactly what kind of AK do you have? just curious.. anyway, id find a youtube video on whats involved in installing a side rail yourself, it might be something you can do on your own

the way its usually done is the rear of the rail gets riveted on where the front rivet of the rear trunnion is.. then a couple more holes are drilled to rivet the rail in the front and middle

i believe there are some aftermarket side rails that you would just line up (making sure its level with the bore), drill a couple holes in the side of the receiver and then bolt the rail on with an allen head screw and some loctite.. so for that method so long as you have a power drill you could install it yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvyksCYNKqo&hd=1
 
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why would someone want to mount their optics on their forearm, further away from their eye and make the rifle a lot more front heavy when you can just get a side rail or TWS mount, keep the added weight and balance rearward?.. and it wouldnt look as goofy either
With the dot up front, its out of your way, both handling and vision wise.

When slung at ready across your chest, your gear doesnt hang up on the sight, and/or the side mount. Your vision isnt blocked by the sight, so you have full peripheral vision, making it more natural to shoot with.

In the case of the TWS rail, you also dont loose your rear sight, and your irons are always visible in your dots tube, whether its on or not.

Most of the side rail mounts sit way to high to shoot naturally with, which just makes things awkward, both shouldering and shooting wise. I know there are one or two othe there now that do get them pretty low, and Im not saying they arent out there, but I havent seen one yet that will let you cowitness.

There is really no change in balance, or at least it isnt noticeable to me, and its certainly not "a lot more front heavy".

With the dot mounted low and forward, the rifle shoulders quickly and naturally, without thought or adjustment. Snap shooting is a breeze, especially on moving targets, even at 100 yards or more.

The rifle shoulders pretty much exactly as it does when you shoulder a rifle without any optic, and you get the same basic cheek weld. The reason for this is, the dot is cowitnessed with the irons, and the irons are right there with the dot while you shoot.

As far as it "looking goofy"..., who cares, it works very well, and I have yet to find anything work better, and Ive tried most of them.

I would highly suggest you give an AK (or anything else for that matter) set up this way a try, before you get all cocky about it. A little "realistic" experience with one, and I think youll come away with a whole different perspective.

Just to give you an idea as to what they will do, these are 50 (R) and 100 (L) targets that were shot doing a "2 second" snap shots from a low ready.

ry%3D400.jpg
 
if mounting sights on the end of the forearm like that was better than a side rail, the russians wouldnt be using side rails.. enough said
 
Have you ever tried to shoot an AK "realistically", using a Kobra, or one of the other Russian sights on a side mount?

I really like most of the Russian stuff, its usually well made, built like a tank,and very functional. That last part doenst carry over with their red dots and how they are mounted.

Hey, I could care less what you use or how you mount it. Like I said, Ive tried a lot of them, in most of the mounting positions/options, and I havent found anything to work as well as the Ultimak yet. If you want a functional gun, its the way to go. If your looking for a range gun, anything will likely work, as long as you use quality stuff.


These are off Ultimaks site. They are in use in the real world too.

WinningTeam.jpg
UltiMAKOverseas.jpg
 
Jenrick, don't rule put a scout set up too soon. I have an Ultimak and a PA micro dot and it is a lot better than I thought it would be. The first time out I put 10 out of 10 on a 6" plate at 200yds off hand. I may be coming to Austin later this week, if you have a range you want to meet at I'll let you try it out.
 
since were posting photos.. and this method allows you to install any red dot, any scope in the proper fashion..the reason people started going with scout mounts is because they simply didnt want to put forth the effort to install a side rail and the TWS top rail hadnt come out yet

tn_Aksiderail1.jpg
 
I think that the kvar mounts and the ultimak are ok. I havent tried the krebs or the UTG. I like the kobra. I think the MW ind. mount would be ok on a vepr but didnt like it on my saigas.
 
and this method allows you to install any red dot, any scope in the proper fashion..
Well that certainly looks like it will cowitness with a low mounted Aimpoint.

You still have the "in your face" issue with that mount though, as well as the mount being what it is. You would think if they were going to "improve" them, they would loose all those sharp corners and edges, do something to cover or guard that lever, and make them more handling, and less hang up on stuff friendly.

Personally, Im not a fan of putting a scope on an AK, and really dont see the point, as it takes away from the guns shootability, but thats me. Like I said earlier, do what you like. Having shot them with both rear and forward mounted scopes, again, I find the forward mounted scope the better choice for what the AK is, and again, thats me.

I have had a couple of other rifles with scout scopes, bolts and autos, and they work amazingly well on "working" guns, and for general use, are hard to beat. They generally arent the best for varmint or target type shooting though.

in the proper fashion..
Obviously, thats a matter of opinion, and ours seem to be polar opposites.

Now, there are usually a couple of types of opinions. Some are based simply on looks and perception, with no actual experience, where others are based on experience through trial and error, and decisions made based on those experiences. I prefer the latter, how about you?

the reason people started going with scout mounts is because they simply didnt want to put forth the effort to install a side rail and the TWS top rail hadnt come out yet
Ive been at this for awhile, and all my AK's came with side rails. Having used them, I was convinced there must be something better. I was right (for me). Ive been using the Ultimaks since they first showed up, and havent found anything that works better yet. Having seen the benefits from experience with the dots mounted forward, I mount them as far forward as practical on pretty much everything, not just the AK's, and the results have been the same with all of them.

The TWS rail was pretty scary when they first came out. They too had all sorts of squared off and sharp edges and pointy things, and those seemed to be right where youre face sits when you shoot.

This is the first model.....

arsenalrail.jpg

This is the "improved" second...
5928430062_2a47f1b026_b.jpg

I dont know how you shoot, but I shoot with my head down and forward, where it should be if the rifle is shouldered properly, and my face is right up against the rear of the cover and my nose is usually just along side the cover. Try shooting like that with either of those.

When you get down to it, the only real answer here is to try for yourself, as many different set ups as you can, and try and figure out what works best for you. Unfortunately, that tends to get pricey if you dont have access to the different types and have to pay out of pocket. The upside, most of this stuff (the good quality stuff) sells pretty quick on EBay, and you can recover a good part of what you spent while learning.
 
Not trying to steal this thread, just a quick ?
I'm trying to mount a PVS14D with my eotech and can't find a rail mount.
Any suggestions?
 
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