Albany Machine Gun Scandal:

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BLOOMBERG LOOKING IN WRONG PLACE, SAYS SAF

BELLEVUE, WA – The renewed scandal involving alleged missing machine guns that had been secretly and illicitly purchased by officers with the Albany, NY Police Department several years ago suggests that if New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg wants to go after illegal guns, he need only drive up the Hudson River with his rogue investigators and turn them loose, the Second Amendment Foundation said today.

The Albany Times Union reported this week that dozens of automatic weapons, obtained apparently without approval by police officers in 1993 and 1994 – during the first Clinton Administration – were originally thought to have been rounded up and destroyed a few years ago. But now, the newspaper said, some of these guns are apparently still missing. One of the guns was reportedly found at a Texas gun store. Another of the guns had been obtained by an assistant district attorney, who ultimately turned it in about four years ago. It was not explained why he had the gun in the first place, but he certainly should have known better, SAF said.

“While Mayor Bloomberg has been bullying gun shops in other states for alleged illegal gun trafficking, he might want to send his vigilante private investigators to harass the Keystone Kops of the Albany Police Department,” said SAF founder Alan Gottlieb. “And instead of suing gun dealers for firearms that show up in New York City crimes, maybe he ought to apologize to the citizens of Texas for the fact that an illicit Albany machine gun showed up in their state.

“Bloomberg and people like him repeatedly argue that one type of firearm or another should be restricted to the police and military,” he continued. “This case, and similar ones in Oregon and Michigan where police officers were charged with federal firearms violations, demonstrates just how ridiculous that argument is. We’re surprised that none of the officers in the Albany scandal were prosecuted.

“Perhaps the worst part about this scandal is that it is a black mark against all the good, decent police officers out there who wouldn’t dream of being mixed up in something like this,” Gottlieb observed. “Millions of law-abiding American citizens, including thousands who currently own fully-automatic firearms, have never been involved in anything remotely similar to this fiasco, yet Mike Bloomberg wants to strip them of their gun rights.

“Contrary to what the Bloomberg Bunch says, maybe these guns should be restricted to anybody but the police,” Gottlieb concluded.
 
It was not explained why he had the gun in the first place, but he certainly should have known better, SAF said.

I wish they would go that easy on me if I was found with an unregistered machinegun.
 
This case, and similar ones in Oregon and Michigan where police officers were charged with federal firearms violations, demonstrates just how ridiculous that argument is. We’re surprised that none of the officers in the Albany scandal were prosecuted.

There was also a similiar case here in Illinois with police and a doctor "Diverting" FA firearms to their personal use. They also got a free pass, IIRC.
 
I get SAF mailers periodically asking for money. I'll have to send them some next time.
 
Cops are some of the worst offenders when it comes to unregistered NFA items. There have been many, many cases involving local law enforcement with unregistered NFA stuff.
 
They have had problems with registered machineguns as well.

In fact, the only person convicted of a crime committed with an NFA weapon was a cop.

Mac-10 if I remember right.
 
Another of the guns had been obtained by an assistant district attorney, who ultimately turned it in about four years ago. It was not explained why he had the gun in the first place, but he certainly should have known better, SAF said.

Yup, "Shoulda known better" is sufficient reason to avoid being charged with a federal crime.
 
...missing machine guns that had been secretly and illicitly purchased by officers with the Albany, NY Police Department... dozens of automatic weapons, obtained apparently without approval by police officers...

Are gun dealers allowed to sell post '86 machine guns to police officers without the officer first providing some sort of proof/documentation that the machine gun is being purchased as department property? You'd think that the gun dealer would need some sort of documentation from the police dept before even placing the order, much less allow the officer to take delivery.

They make it sound so easy and informal... cop walks in, flashes a badge, walks out with brand new M16.

I was always under the impression that full autos that are issued as duty weapons are purchased by the department, not the individual officers...
 
"I was always under the impression that full autos that are issued as duty weapons are purchased by the department, not the individual officers..."

Not sure of current law. A few years ago a policeman could get a letter from the Sheriff or Chief and purchase a machine gun. Lots of them left the force for hwatever reason. i'll be that very few of them legally disposed of their full auto guns.
 
Are gun dealers allowed to sell post '86 machine guns to police officers without the officer first providing some sort of proof/documentation that the machine gun is being purchased as department property? You'd think that the gun dealer would need some sort of documentation from the police dept before even placing the order, much less allow the officer to take delivery.

No. The transfer should be on a BATFE Form 10 to the department, and it is subsequently issued to the LE officer. Legally the officer has no more right to own it post-employment than you or I do.
 
No. The transfer should be on a BATFE Form 10 to the department, and it is subsequently issued to the LE officer. Legally the officer has no more right to own it post-employment than you or I do.

And there you have it... Different rules for a different class.

Why aren't the Alphabet soup agencies running these items down and prosecuting the individuals along with the Sheriff for losing track of these?
 
I live just out side Albany,and actually know the guys who own and work in one of the store that sold the guns to these cops....here's one problem....ask any number of cops(local,state,feds)about any gun laws,and you'll get any number of different answers.The one shop is in deep right now over flash hiders...again,when they tried to get the laws clarified,they got different rules every time.Till the feds came in like the SWAT team(not really).
Albany's Mayor Jennings is an a-hole...he just appointed a "gun violence task force"(same old liberal local hippy types)....he's tried to enact new laws for guns sold w/in the city limits(In which there are no gun stores:banghead: )
anyway it's a real cluster****....of course what will happen?Gun store gets shut down,no cops go to jail...I have to buy ammo at Walmart.
 
.ask any number of cops(local,state,feds)about any gun laws,and you'll get any number of different answers

possibly because NYS gun laws, while generally uniform, can differ by city or county.
 
They have had problems with registered machineguns as well.

In fact, the only person convicted of a crime committed with an NFA weapon was a cop.

Mac-10 if I remember right.

WRONG: Not convicted- just charged.
TRUE: His Mac was legally registered.

He killed a guy breaking into his home. He is famous for being the ONLY person in history that used an NFA weapon for self defense. He prevailed and case was dismissed.


This thread reminds me I need to set up my NFA trust...

Justin
 
Curses. :banghead: I have too many firearm stories in my bookmarks to find the one(s) I'm after!

If my memory serves me right, the police officer in question was from Ohio, the same state which is home to the only other person to murder* someone with an NFA. In the second instance it was a case of a doctor(?) settling(!) an argument with another. I could be off, but, I think it is mostly correct. :uhoh:

He is famous for being the ONLY person in history that used an NFA weapon for self defense.

*This was brought up (probably several times) before on THR. I think the articles linked to were Massad Ayoob's. There were at least two instances where automatic weapons** were used in self defense.

In one, a fellow who worked for HK (Georgia?) was followed by bikers. He was carrying a gun from the factory.

In the other, a gun shop owner was responding to a break in at his shop. Suppressive fire was involved. :D

**I'm not sure if these are NFA weapons, stupid me, but to the best of my memory they were capable of automatic fire.

I hope I've answered more questions than I've asked. :eek:
 
He is famous for being the ONLY person in history that used an NFA weapon for self defense.

Your right, I meant to say charged.

Your first listed victim example used a dealer sample Ruger AC556 against the bikers. The other was a shopkeeper in Fl. returning fire with two separate NFA weapons killing half the robbers firing at him from his gunshop's storefront.

Thanks for clearing up my typo. :D These stories do warm the heart...

Justin
 
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html

"Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies."

That's at least one MURDER conviction (it referenced another, but I don't know what that one is--the only one I've heard is the above mentioned Dayton LEO that killed his snitch). Now, how many have be used and not been caught is a matter for speculation (maybe/probably none). I don't know of the stats on how many have been used (and caught and convicted) in a crime. I thought registered NFA's were used in a Las Vegas robbery? Anyone recall that?

ETA -- Here's another possible (unlcear if it was truly registered?):
http://members.cox.net/arporro/photos/Shooting.pdf
 
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