All in the Family

[Nature Boy]

There's this guy who started reloading a few years ago and has become ate up with it...(OK, that guy is me)

That guy (me) has decided he needs to come up with some plan or he's just going to hop from one rifle "want" to another rifle "want" because I can reload for it.

I currently load for:

.223 - AR and Bolt Gun
.308 - M1A and Bolt Gun
.358 - Lever Gun
.30-06 - Bolt Gun

So the idea I've had lately is to expand to calibers in the same family. I already have 2 in the .308 family so a list of "wants" would include:

.243
.260 Remington
7mm-08
.338 Federal

.30-06 might include:

.25-06
.338-06
.35 Whelen

.223 might include:

6.8 SPC
300 Blackout

Looking at economy of scale, these all share similar components including brass that can be formed from parent cases. Sure, there's some overlap in performance, but there's also something appealing to me in completing a set of something. In the big wide universe of rifles, you have to start somewhere, right? Hence keeping it "in the family"

Now the questions. Thinking along the lines of economy, how would you acquire the necessary hardware to develop and shoot these calibers? The AR seems easy. I already have one in .223, I'd just need to acquire the appropriate uppers to match. Or, my .223 bolt gun is a model 12 savage. From what I understand, barrel changes are relatively easy. Staying in the .223 case family means all else stays the same, right?

For .308 and .30-06 I'd need more platform(s). What about a TC Encore with multiple barrels? Or 2 more Savages (long and short action) and acquire the barrels as needed.

So having a plan with some priorities would help me avoid more impulse buys and make it easier on the home front. The wife really appreciates when I let her know what I'm doing as apposed to showing up with another surprise purchase.

When I look at the gaps in what I have, I've really been wanting a .260 rem, but I'm interested in what the THR community thinks before I put my plan together.

 

[horsey300]

There's this guy who started reloading a few years ago and has become ate up with it...(OK, that guy is me)

That guy (me) has decided he needs to come up with some plan or he's just going to hop from one rifle "want" to another rifle "want" because I can reload for it.

I currently load for:

.223 - AR and Bolt Gun
.308 - M1A and Bolt Gun
.358 - Lever Gun
.30-06 - Bolt Gun

So the idea I've had lately is to expand to calibers in the same family. I already have 2 in the .308 family so a list of "wants" would include:

.243
.260 Remington
7mm-08
.338 Federal

.30-06 might include:

.25-06
.338-06
.35 Whelen

.223 might include:

6.5 Grendel
300 Blackout

Looking at economy of scale, these all share similar components including brass that can be formed from parent cases. Sure, there's some overlap in performance, but there's also something appealing to me in completing a set of something. In the big wide universe of rifles, you have to start somewhere, right? Hence keeping it "in the family"

Now the questions. Thinking along the lines of economy, how would you acquire the necessary hardware to develop and shoot these calibers? The AR seems easy. I already have one in .223, I'd just need to acquire the appropriate uppers to match. Or, my .223 bolt gun is a model 12 savage. From what I understand, barrel changes are relatively easy. Staying in the .223 case family means all else stays the same, right?

For .308 and .30-06 I'd need more platform(s). What about a TC Encore with multiple barrels? Or 2 more Savages (long and short action) and acquire the barrels as needed.

So having a plan with some priorities would help me avoid more impulse buys and make it easier on the home front. The wife really appreciates when I let her know what I'm doing as apposed to showing up with another surprise purchase.

When I look at the gaps in what I have, I've really been wanting a .260 rem, but I'm interested in what the THR community thinks before I put my plan together.

Maybe look into a Thompson Dimension for your .308 family. I JUST found them a couple days ago and love the concept. You can change out barrels cheap and if needed you can change bolt heads easily too. They come with the required tools, they're a bolt gun and not the most conventionally striking design. Then all that's left are the dies, cases, and bullets.

 

[adcoch1]

A few thoughts...
I like to have a few different cartridges or loads for a specific cartridge to do different jobs. Like 30 caliber, for instance, I have a 300 blk, a 308, and a 30-06. All use 30 cal projectiles, so I stock a few different bullet weights for whatever job I want to do.

I also focus on the firearm use more than the actual cartridge used. A target rifle needs to be accurate but hitting power isn't that important, whereas a hunting rifle needs to be appropriately powerful to cleanly kill the game you use it for.

So in a certain case family like 223 I will have an ar15 because its a common use for it, maybe a accuracy platform( target gun) and something like 300blackout, which uses the same bolt head, but is for a completely different purpose. All of these can be had in the ar15 platform, and thats probably how I would go about it. Its more about the uses than the cartridge, although I do love certain ones like 30-06 and 44 mag.

 

[Varminterror]

Why? All of the cartridges you have listed have brass available, so forming brass is a HUGELY overstated "advantage." Are you wanting to build switch barrel rifles? They don't need to be the same parent case to do so, only the same action length and bolt face - unless you have a Savage, for which you can change bolt heads easily too. Sharing parent brass and primers isn't a real advantage - you'll spend FAR more on bullets and powder, and often when you change bullet weights drastically within the same parent case (i.e. a 25-06 and 35 whelen), you'll be crippling one or both cartridges to try to force them into the same powder. It also really limits your versatility. For example, a 260rem and 338 federal seem like they can hunt different game because one is a 140grn bullet and one is a 250, but in reality, if you can't kill it with a 260, the 338fed isn't a significantly better option. Throwing a small bullet in a large case ends up burning throats prematurely, throwing big bullets in small cases yields a pathetic trajectory or forces you to use light for caliber bullets with poor sectional density and penetration. It might seem like a good idea, but in practical application, it's not really all it's cracked up to be.

Also - 6.5 Grendel is not 223rem progeny and does not share common mags nor bolts in your AR. The 300blk is a waste of time for a vast majority of shooters. It's a gimmick round. The Grendel is a practical and versatile weapon with much more capability than the 300blk.

 

[Varminterror]

If you really want to take the next step in your reloading, and really want to find something which occupies your attention - pick up a wildcat cartridge. Picking up those VERY common cartridges and finding a load (or 100 loads) which shoot incredibly well is easy. But the essence of reloading is rooted in the exploration of the unknown. Don't go all out and design your own cartridge right out of the gate, but you might try playing with a 6mm Dasher or XC, or a 6-6.8spc in your AR's. A .284 Shehane running 180grn pills has been an interesting and consuming pursuit for me.

 

[Nature Boy]

Why?

EDIT. I see you made some suggestions in your subsequent post

My bad on the Grendel. I thought it used the .223 case

 

[1stmarine]

I understand your dilemma. It has been subject of much thinking on this end, like many other enthusiasts and shooters, I am sure.

A few years ago I had bullets and brass for virtually any popular commercial caliber so I decided to start simplifying.
One of the main reasons was space and also that there was no material time to expand in the calibers and wildcat hobby.
There is a fine line between hobby and insanity and some have crossed that line, probably a few times over. lol
In terms of how to select in every bore there are many many calibers that do virtually the same thing.

So I am trying to get some consolidation and get rid of bores and calibers that do not do anything new for my goals,
some even complicated calibers.

I established a simple set of directives to follow that have allowed me to own less stuff yet do more things.
And this does't have to be boring. Still plenty of fun stuff going around and new challenges too:

My directives:

- Consolidate the number of bores and type of bullets to a reasonable number that can be interchanged in a number of
cases some commercial and some wildcats.
- Choose calibers that are plentiful in loaded form and cases can be used to produce other popular calibers including some
specialty wildcats this way assuring a steady supply of components. Current and precious service rounds are the usual suspects
and great donors for many rounds.
- Consolidate to a nr. of powders that can be used in a large number of calibers therefore increasing versatility.
- Many calibers able to tackle any role from varmint, to target to brush hunting to extreme long range with excellent performance
in each role.

I am at a better place now but still have long ways to go.

In terms of bores and bullets I have settled with:
22/.224
6mm
7mm
30 cal
9mm/357/358
375 (a small amount)
430
12GA

I still have a considerable amount of 6.5mm, 270, 310, 338, 40cal, 45 cal, 458 and 50 cal bullets but I doubt I will shoot much of those
and most likely will go away to make room.
The main reason if that there is nothing those bullets do that I cannot do and do better with any of the other calibers and popular brass.
I really enjoyed the 338 lapua but it was hard for me to drive that rifle and decided it was not going to do anything for me in terms
of ballistics and my goals that I could not achieve with other calibers. Nothing wrong with the rounds it was more being realistic with
my goals. I can shoot flatter and further with other calibers and in reality I don't need that kind of grain that far away.

I took all the components and cases and put them on a matrix to decide maximum level of ex-changeability and performance but also
buy more components accordingly so I will never need to buy ammo or components ever again. I started this years ago when they started with
federal bans and really ramp up when things started to get worse with Obanana.

I can produce a number of calibers with each bore both in pistol and rifle departments both commercial and non-commercial using
a wide range of donor brass. Even if I run out of brass I will have other donors that can shoot the same bullets from other chambers
also derived from popular brass.

In terms of the actions and barrels I realized I had more barrels that I could ever shoot including some in actions that I don't own
anymore so I started a project to convert the barrels to a universal system/platform that is a lot more affordable and accurate
than the TC, AR, H&R, Rossi or any other system. Specially because for auto-loading I have the amazing AR and a few others
and I don't need nor want more auto-loading for everything.

I documented the universal conversion system I designed here but it didn't get much attention...

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-conversion-for-rem-700-and-savage-10.814248/

I also have the AR15 and AR10 magazine systems for the Remington 700.

With the firearms I also decided in consolidation to have plenty of aftermarket and equipment for any role including spare parts
therefore assuring exchangeability and enough parts to service my guns for a lifetime even if everything goes to crap.

That is why I normally stick to the most popular actions in the world. Some might think boring but it doesn't have to be boring
and there is a good reason for it.

I hope this helps.

 

[SSN Vet]

I think what the OP is really looking for is a good 12 step program.

 

[Nature Boy]

I documented the universal conversion system I designed here but it didn't get much attention...

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-conversion-for-rem-700-and-savage-10.814248/

That's very interesting 1stmarine. You have the skill, knowhow and tools to pull that off. I don't at the moment

I think what the OP is really looking for is a good 12 step program.

If I was, I wouldn't come here for help

 

[Varminterror]

I can relate to this line of thinking - I started out with a .30-06, then diverged a bit by adding a .22-250, then added a .25-06, 270win, and a 35 Whelen a few years later, and eventually a 338-06 A-square. Then I added a handful of 308's and its progeny in the 243win, a 260rem, and a couple of 7-08wins... Never bought anything but 30-06 and 308win brass (and .22-250). I had a couple 45-70's and 30-30's, and 44mag leverguns, and a couple x39's... So I get into college with about 100 rifles in my safes, and I realized I could pick any one of them and it really only did almost exactly the same thing as half of the others... My goodness it was boring... Within the cartridge class, the powder charges didn't change much, so I could run a light bullet in one cartridge and nearly match a heavy bullet in the other, and even across 30-06 vs. 308 case lengths, there really just wasn't that much differentiation to be made unless you grabbed a light short action and compared it to a heavy long action...

So then I added a x55 swede and a 284win, a 7mm Rem mag and a 338wm. A 338LM, then a 50bmg, then a 416 Rem Mag, 458win mag - which I reamed to 458 Lott, then a 416 Rigby and a 375win... I added a 221 fireball and a 7-30 waters, a .257bob... Not to mention buying a couple dozen handgun cartridges in the span of a few years as well...

Dropping the same 454ci engine in 10 different muscle car bodies is interesting, but you can bet they'll all pull about the same BHP and run about the same quarter mile time... But why lock yourself into one engine? Build a light and quick 4 banger, a nimble V-6, and a deep loping V8 and you'll really get to flex your talents...

If you have the same 3 colors, there are only so many pictures you can really paint. But what if you dropped the paintbrush and picked up a charcoal pencil, or a lump of clay? An image painted on a canvas induces different emotion than the same subject would as a bronze casting or as a wood carving, different in black and white than it does in color, and different still than it would described in prose.

I'm not saying a guy shouldn't ever own cartridges which share common parent cases - I enjoy a handful of cartridges all on the same parent case, but I don't come to load those with the intent of simplifying my life, nor expanding my options. I have a 17FB and a 17Rem, which are different animals in their own rights, and a 20practical, 223rem, and 6x45, (that's 4 siblings), all of which have their own little things... But I tend to load those in campaigns, switching from one to the other, whereas I'll consistently load 223rem, 6.8spc, 260rem, and 300wm (or their compatriots in their respective classes), and what makes them the most interesting is the significant difference in displacement.

 

[Varminterror]

I documented the universal conversion system I designed here but it didn't get much attention...

Most likely because Remage barrels have been around a LONG time, and swapping barrels is typically a very uncommon pastime. Not a lot of need or want in the market to be able to use Savage barrels in a remington receiver - just use a Remington barrel and have it headspaced, or cheaper - buy a Remage barrel. Just a nature of the market.

 

[1stmarine]

Most likely because Remage barrels have been around a LONG time, and swapping barrels is typically a very uncommon pastime. Not a lot of need or want in the market to be able to use Savage barrels in a remington receiver - just use a Remington barrel and have it headspaced, or cheaper - buy a Remage barrel. Just a nature of the market.

I have barrel nuts and barrels for the remington. The idea here is something different.
This will allow me to use the very same barrel in any rifle I want whether is Savage, Remington, M70, etc...
The main purpose is to be able to use some of the older barrels and make it universal, easier to swap,more affordable, and more accurate than other platforms.

 

[LAH]

There is a fine line between hobby and insanity and some have crossed that line, probably a few times over. lol

Yes many have. I'm looking to shoot more & dream less. You can simply have too much to take care of at times.

 

[Nature Boy]

Yes many have. I'm looking to shoot more & dream less. You can simply have too much to take care of at times.

Same here. I'm trying to take a thoughtful, controlled approach to my future acquisitions. I can see how you can end up with too many mouths to feed....and a few red headed step children

And again, my desire to keep things "in the family" was a means to simplifying the decision making for both caliber and shooting platforms. Maybe that's wrong thinking but that's my reasoning.

So if I was to say my next goal was to add to the .308 family, and I have the .308 and .358, maybe the most logical addition would be a .260 and that would cover all the .308 bases.

For me those bases are Range precision, Big Game and Varmint Hunting

 

[1stmarine]

@Nature Boy
IMO your approach is very reasonable.
You can consolidate components and do more with less.
Simple is good.

 

[SSN Vet]

one thought to share...

I load .308 and 7mm-08, and though one can neck down .308 brass to form it into 7mm-08 brass, I have deliberately chosen not to do so.

The reason is that I do not want to have loaded ammo that has a head stamp that doesn't match the config. of the finished cartridge. This isn't so much because I'm afraid that I will get them mixed up, but rather, I'm thinking about who sorts out all my stuff after I've been hit by a bus. I don't want my wife, or anyone else to get hurt, or to be liable for someone else getting hurt.

So for me, shared components does not extend beyond bullets. But then again, I tend to be very conservative when it comes to safety... whether it be firearms, boating, motorcycles, etc...

OBTW, if you do find a cure for the reloading bug, please be sure not to share it. Some of us are quite content with our addiction and happily use any excuse we can find to go pull the happy lever.