MeekandMild
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- Dec 25, 2002
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45-70
All Purpose Caliber
- Thread starter manapat
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The '06 IS a great hunting caliber, and I've used one more than anything else, BUT if we're including the big bears the 35 Whelen, 338, or 375 H&H offer a bit more "insurance" if things go wrong. I use the larger calibers even if I'm not hunting bears, but hunting in their area.
I don't think the 375 H&H recoils too bad if the stock fits well and it has a good pad like a Pachmayer Decelerator.
I like the 45/70 very much, and carry one (1886 Browning carbine) for a summer gun, but for meat hunting the scoped bolt gun gives me more chances to fill the tags.
After thinking over some of the replies I wanted to add a bit.
'....meaningless.." to want one gun far a wide range of game? What? This has been a goal of many for a LONG time. I thought we all liked to think of how versatile our favorite caliber is. I hope we haven't fallen into the gun magazines way of thinking that we feel we NEED a gun for every concievable niche, and nothing else will do? As has been said many times and places " You can load a big gun down like a small gun, but a small gun will always be a small gun". Even without handloading, the heavier calibers simply offer more flexibility. For most guns that I have hunted with, I find ONE load it shoots well (on the heavy end) and use it for everything. Like someone said, the deer can't tell the difference,...... but, the bigger animals may be able to tell the difference.
I LIKE having different guns for a variety of shooting or game, but they are not "necessary" in the sense that I "can't" hunt deer with the 35 Whelen or 375. They actually work very well for deer, and I prefer the heavier guns when hunting deer in grizzly country.
I don't think the 375 H&H recoils too bad if the stock fits well and it has a good pad like a Pachmayer Decelerator.
I like the 45/70 very much, and carry one (1886 Browning carbine) for a summer gun, but for meat hunting the scoped bolt gun gives me more chances to fill the tags.
After thinking over some of the replies I wanted to add a bit.
'....meaningless.." to want one gun far a wide range of game? What? This has been a goal of many for a LONG time. I thought we all liked to think of how versatile our favorite caliber is. I hope we haven't fallen into the gun magazines way of thinking that we feel we NEED a gun for every concievable niche, and nothing else will do? As has been said many times and places " You can load a big gun down like a small gun, but a small gun will always be a small gun". Even without handloading, the heavier calibers simply offer more flexibility. For most guns that I have hunted with, I find ONE load it shoots well (on the heavy end) and use it for everything. Like someone said, the deer can't tell the difference,...... but, the bigger animals may be able to tell the difference.
I LIKE having different guns for a variety of shooting or game, but they are not "necessary" in the sense that I "can't" hunt deer with the 35 Whelen or 375. They actually work very well for deer, and I prefer the heavier guns when hunting deer in grizzly country.
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only1asterisk
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- Jun 13, 2003
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I think you would be better served by 2 rifles, but if one is your goal, then a necked up 30-06 is the way to get it done.
I'd pick the 9.3x62 because of better bullets available for the big boys. When in doubt err on the side of caution.
But the 35 whelen is just as good, with more bullet selection on the lighter side and more vesitility (lots of cast bullets and pistol bullets for practice/varmits).
The 338-06 is fine too, but only certain bullets will expand well on small deer at range. The heavy bullets designed with the 338 Win Mag and 340 weatherby in mind penetrate more at 338-06 velocities do to reduced of expansion. They also seem to penetrate straighter. Matched with the 210 grain partition is an almost ideal for the in between game.
Any one of these should be flat shooting enough to take 275-300 yard shots with ease should the need arise. The 35 Whelen and 9.3x62 are also available in factory rifles that aren't going to break the bank.
If you don't load your own, you'd be better served with a 338/300/30-06 because of ammunition selection.
David
I'd pick the 9.3x62 because of better bullets available for the big boys. When in doubt err on the side of caution.
But the 35 whelen is just as good, with more bullet selection on the lighter side and more vesitility (lots of cast bullets and pistol bullets for practice/varmits).
The 338-06 is fine too, but only certain bullets will expand well on small deer at range. The heavy bullets designed with the 338 Win Mag and 340 weatherby in mind penetrate more at 338-06 velocities do to reduced of expansion. They also seem to penetrate straighter. Matched with the 210 grain partition is an almost ideal for the in between game.
Any one of these should be flat shooting enough to take 275-300 yard shots with ease should the need arise. The 35 Whelen and 9.3x62 are also available in factory rifles that aren't going to break the bank.
If you don't load your own, you'd be better served with a 338/300/30-06 because of ammunition selection.
David
perry1963
Member
If you are a good shot in the field then the 338 WM should be o. k. but i would lean more to the 375 H&H, this is way overkill for deer but the last thing you want to do is chase a wounded grizzly in the brush because you didn't have enough rifle to get the job done.
cratz2
Member
Yup... if you aren't planning on making hits past 200 yards or so, and you are going to load your own, I think the 45/70 would be tough to beat.
For longer shots, I'd imagine any serious cartridge from 6.5 to .35 caliber would be just fine.
Personally, if bears are involved, I'd want the biggest diameter bullet possible.
For longer shots, I'd imagine any serious cartridge from 6.5 to .35 caliber would be just fine.
Personally, if bears are involved, I'd want the biggest diameter bullet possible.
30-06.
Handload from 125gr to 220gr round noses... plenty of medicine for anything in the lower 48.
Get a bigger gun for brown bears.
Handload from 125gr to 220gr round noses... plenty of medicine for anything in the lower 48.
Get a bigger gun for brown bears.
Edward429451
member
If you hadn't said brown bears, I'd of said .308 Win. but you did so I say 30/06. Everything about it is less than the other bigger calibers the others mentioned so you can practice more and make it work.
Mannlicher
Member
.338/06 comes to mind. You can choose a 200 grain bullet at a respectable 2700 fps or move up to a heavier 225 grain or even a 250 grain bullet at over 2500 fps.
as i read through this thread, i'm more conviced then ever that you'd need somthing heavy like the .375 H&H for brown bears.
for eveything smaller, in the lower 48...or anywhere else for that matter, the 6.5x55mm will get it done with less recoil and fuss than any calibre larger than it.
if you really wanted to "reach out" for somthing like pronghorn antelope...you could go with the 6.5/06
for eveything smaller, in the lower 48...or anywhere else for that matter, the 6.5x55mm will get it done with less recoil and fuss than any calibre larger than it.
if you really wanted to "reach out" for somthing like pronghorn antelope...you could go with the 6.5/06
RaySendero
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- Joined
- Aug 29, 2004
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- 65
manapat,
I think you have a great excuse now to buy 2 rifles!
pauli
Member
i've heard it opined that if you can't kill it with a 30-06, you've probably got no business trying 
Of course, like everyone else I was going to say .30-06 until I got to the part about brown bears.
In that case I would go with a .338 Win Mag as a minimum: there is no reason you can't shoot 180 grain bullets loaded to .30-06 velocities out of the .338 Win Mag.
But, if I was doing it, I would go with the .375 H&H
Killing the animal isn't the issue: the .30-06 will certainly kill anything that walks on planet earth. The issue is making a quick clean kill. I have never hunted brown bear but I assume it is like hunting anything else: you don't always get a perfect, standing, broadside shot. And for the less than ideal shot, and for an animal as big as a brownie, I would prefer something with more bullet weight. Of course brown bear also has one characteristic that makes it different from whitetail deer and that is the fact that if you don't make a quick clean kill, you might become that bears next meal.
In that case I would go with a .338 Win Mag as a minimum: there is no reason you can't shoot 180 grain bullets loaded to .30-06 velocities out of the .338 Win Mag.
But, if I was doing it, I would go with the .375 H&H
Killing the animal isn't the issue: the .30-06 will certainly kill anything that walks on planet earth. The issue is making a quick clean kill. I have never hunted brown bear but I assume it is like hunting anything else: you don't always get a perfect, standing, broadside shot. And for the less than ideal shot, and for an animal as big as a brownie, I would prefer something with more bullet weight. Of course brown bear also has one characteristic that makes it different from whitetail deer and that is the fact that if you don't make a quick clean kill, you might become that bears next meal.
stevelyn
Member
The majority of us folks living in the Bush kill our groceries with '06s. That includes moose and brown bears. Last year when my department purchased a rifle specifically for problem brown bears, I chose a Rem 7400 in .30-06. I don't feel undergunned when creeping in the alders. I also purchased a boat load of Federal Premiums with 180 gr. Nosler Partitions to stoke it with. Certainly standard .30-06 commercial loads and handloads do the trick.
If you feel you need a little extra oomf and don't handload, Federal High Energy and Hornady Light Magnums makes an '06 act like a .300 H&H. They are loaded with premium bullets from Trophy Bonded, Barnes, Nosler, and of course Hornady. Choosing a proper bullet is probably more important than what you gain just from the velocity increase.
For deer sized critters up to and including black bears most 150 gr. off-the-shelf hunting bullets will suffice (stay away from the Ballistic Tips unless the deer are tiny). For larger creatures elk, moose, brown bears you'll want to go up to the high performance 180 grainers like Partitions, A-Frames, X-Bullets/Triple Shocks, Fail Safes or TB Bear Claws. However, even high performance premium bullets are not going to make up for poor shot placement.
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Not that I am suggesting it, but a few years ago I spent some time in Barrow Alaska. The natives thought a .243 Win was the ideal caliber from caribou to polar bears and walrus. A small carabou is the same size as a whitetail and the Polar Bear is as big as the Brownies. I was really suprised it was odd to see them carry any big calibers.
An 30-06 will get the job done, a 300 mag is insurance and the occasional longer shoot.
If I was restricted to only one rifle to hunt all the game on the planet my short list would look like:
300 Mag
9.3 x 62
375 H&H
Heavies not for North America:
404 Jeffreys
416 Remington ( or Rigby )
I think the 338/340 Weatherby would hit this group and a 358 Norma couldn't be discounted.
I am getting old and lazy though and don't like to pack heavy rifles, nor do I like being kicked to death on the bench. A 7mm ( 280, 284, 7mm short mags etc ) with a 140 gr bullet at 2850-2875 fps is all I need for the lower 48, If I headed north I could live with a 160 or 175 gr in the same rifle. An old 30-06 would be a close second choice.
The real reason I would carry a 300 or 375 mag to Alaska is insurance, If have spent a ton a money as an out of state resident, and I would want it just in case. In reality I would carry two guns for insurance just in case one breaks ( been there ) I would have a suitable back up.
I don't like playing with guns on hunts, I want my rifles dialed in and I know both the rifles and the loads, and if I have a problem its a lot easier to pick up my spare rifle, than have to borrow one or do a field fix ( done both at times, never agian ).
An 30-06 will get the job done, a 300 mag is insurance and the occasional longer shoot.
If I was restricted to only one rifle to hunt all the game on the planet my short list would look like:
300 Mag
9.3 x 62
375 H&H
Heavies not for North America:
404 Jeffreys
416 Remington ( or Rigby )
I think the 338/340 Weatherby would hit this group and a 358 Norma couldn't be discounted.
I am getting old and lazy though and don't like to pack heavy rifles, nor do I like being kicked to death on the bench. A 7mm ( 280, 284, 7mm short mags etc ) with a 140 gr bullet at 2850-2875 fps is all I need for the lower 48, If I headed north I could live with a 160 or 175 gr in the same rifle. An old 30-06 would be a close second choice.
The real reason I would carry a 300 or 375 mag to Alaska is insurance, If have spent a ton a money as an out of state resident, and I would want it just in case. In reality I would carry two guns for insurance just in case one breaks ( been there ) I would have a suitable back up.
I don't like playing with guns on hunts, I want my rifles dialed in and I know both the rifles and the loads, and if I have a problem its a lot easier to pick up my spare rifle, than have to borrow one or do a field fix ( done both at times, never agian ).
I'm no expert but
For that specific range of game tasks, if I had to pick one only, I'd probably run with either:
-- .35 Whelen
-- .338-'06 (semi-wildcat)
-- 9.3x62mm
-- .375 Win
-- .444 Marlin
-- .45-70 govt (or .450 marlin)
-- .338 WinMag (or other .338/.340 mag)
-- .376 Steyr
Roughly in order of preference, with the latter four being some overkill for whitetails and beating you up more, esp. the .338 winmag and .376 steyr. The others all also border on overkill, but when covering such a wide range with one gun, you have to go with the lowest common denominator, so to speak. The reason I put .45-70 and .444 ahead of 338 winmag and .376 is I think you'd have less meat damage on the smaller animals with those slower bullets. Heck, those 2 might be your best choices period, for this wide range of tasks, unless you need a lot of range/trajectory, like you might out West, because you're giving up some trajectory in them (.45/70 and .444). .375 Win also gives up a tad of trajectory, and it's not so common of a round, but it can be loaded quite heavy and would have pretty mild recoil - seems like a great brush gun round. There are other .35s, plus or minus, to look at, like .350 Remmag, .358 Norma mag, etc. You might even go a little smaller to a .323, like 8mm Mauser (aka 8x57JS). That's a great all-purpose round as well.
.30-'06 Spfld seems a little light to me for brown bears -- for black bears, meese, elk, caribou, buffalo, yak-type critters, and even smallish inland grizzlies possibly, but the coastal browns (kodiaks) can be humongous and hacked off, and I'm assuming you wanted to include them as a possibility - so I'd want .338-'06 minimum with heavy bullets if there's any chance of close contact. .338-06 is not really ridiculous overkill on small deer either, and has some decent range, so it would be a nice compromise. Ditto on the .35 Whelen and it will be easier to find on gun store shelves. Ditto 9.3.62mm (I think that's a .366 diameter round). Plus, if you went with one of the bigger boys, you could add polar bears to your list, and have then entire continent covered with one gun. Now, if you eliminated coastal browns and polar bears from the mix, I'd say .270 win, .280 rem, .308 win, .30-'06, will do it all, or a 7mmRemmag or .300 winmag if you need to really reach out there some distance. Like someone said, a case can be made for just about any cartridge. But, OTOH, what do I know - like the other gentleman above, I'm mostly an armchair hunter, esp. when it comes to tuque-land (canadian/alaskan) hunting, so far. Mr. Eatman and others have been there, done that, so I'd listen to them more than me.
P.S. I'm surprised that I mentioned the .444Marlin, but "444", you didn't. And the thought of a .375 H&H mag or other large belted magnums being used against a poor little woods-grown bambi tickles my funnybone, though I'm sure they'd work. .375 HH mag may be the quintessential worldwide all-purpose round, but perhaps the .35 Whelen or .338 winmag is the quintessential north american all-purpose round (arguably). Now, like someone said, if you're going to roll your own ammo, then something pretty powerful like the .338 winmag starts to look a lot better as the most versatile round, because then you could upload or download as necessary.
For that specific range of game tasks, if I had to pick one only, I'd probably run with either:
-- .35 Whelen
-- .338-'06 (semi-wildcat)
-- 9.3x62mm
-- .375 Win
-- .444 Marlin
-- .45-70 govt (or .450 marlin)
-- .338 WinMag (or other .338/.340 mag)
-- .376 Steyr
Roughly in order of preference, with the latter four being some overkill for whitetails and beating you up more, esp. the .338 winmag and .376 steyr. The others all also border on overkill, but when covering such a wide range with one gun, you have to go with the lowest common denominator, so to speak. The reason I put .45-70 and .444 ahead of 338 winmag and .376 is I think you'd have less meat damage on the smaller animals with those slower bullets. Heck, those 2 might be your best choices period, for this wide range of tasks, unless you need a lot of range/trajectory, like you might out West, because you're giving up some trajectory in them (.45/70 and .444). .375 Win also gives up a tad of trajectory, and it's not so common of a round, but it can be loaded quite heavy and would have pretty mild recoil - seems like a great brush gun round. There are other .35s, plus or minus, to look at, like .350 Remmag, .358 Norma mag, etc. You might even go a little smaller to a .323, like 8mm Mauser (aka 8x57JS). That's a great all-purpose round as well.
.30-'06 Spfld seems a little light to me for brown bears -- for black bears, meese, elk, caribou, buffalo, yak-type critters, and even smallish inland grizzlies possibly, but the coastal browns (kodiaks) can be humongous and hacked off, and I'm assuming you wanted to include them as a possibility - so I'd want .338-'06 minimum with heavy bullets if there's any chance of close contact. .338-06 is not really ridiculous overkill on small deer either, and has some decent range, so it would be a nice compromise. Ditto on the .35 Whelen and it will be easier to find on gun store shelves. Ditto 9.3.62mm (I think that's a .366 diameter round). Plus, if you went with one of the bigger boys, you could add polar bears to your list, and have then entire continent covered with one gun. Now, if you eliminated coastal browns and polar bears from the mix, I'd say .270 win, .280 rem, .308 win, .30-'06, will do it all, or a 7mmRemmag or .300 winmag if you need to really reach out there some distance. Like someone said, a case can be made for just about any cartridge. But, OTOH, what do I know - like the other gentleman above, I'm mostly an armchair hunter, esp. when it comes to tuque-land (canadian/alaskan) hunting, so far. Mr. Eatman and others have been there, done that, so I'd listen to them more than me.
P.S. I'm surprised that I mentioned the .444Marlin, but "444", you didn't.
And the thought of a .375 H&H mag or other large belted magnums being used against a poor little woods-grown bambi tickles my funnybone, though I'm sure they'd work. .375 HH mag may be the quintessential worldwide all-purpose round, but perhaps the .35 Whelen or .338 winmag is the quintessential north american all-purpose round (arguably). Now, like someone said, if you're going to roll your own ammo, then something pretty powerful like the .338 winmag starts to look a lot better as the most versatile round, because then you could upload or download as necessary.
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Well, yeah, for whitetail deer and the various bears, the .444 Marlin wouldn't be a bad choice. But, if I only owned one rifle and wanted to be able to hunt any animal in North America, I would rather not go with a big bore lever action. Out here in the west, you have a lot of potential for longish shots and with something like a .444 Marlin, you would need to know your range pretty exactly to dope the trajectory. It would be much easier with something like an '06.
I like to beat the drum for handloading. There are a number of good reasons to handload, but to me, one of the best reasons is the ability to tailor your ammo to your needs. There is no reason to have to shoot full bore .338 Win Mag or .375 H&H loads if you don't need to. You have the ability to make the load fit it's intende purpose whether it be full bone crushing power or an appropirate load for eastern whitetails.
All that being said, I work with a guy that does hunt everything with one rifle: a .338 Win Mag. He has taken numerous mule deer with it and says it causes no excessive damage. And, he shoots only factory ammo.
I like to beat the drum for handloading. There are a number of good reasons to handload, but to me, one of the best reasons is the ability to tailor your ammo to your needs. There is no reason to have to shoot full bore .338 Win Mag or .375 H&H loads if you don't need to. You have the ability to make the load fit it's intende purpose whether it be full bone crushing power or an appropirate load for eastern whitetails.
All that being said, I work with a guy that does hunt everything with one rifle: a .338 Win Mag. He has taken numerous mule deer with it and says it causes no excessive damage. And, he shoots only factory ammo.
It was mentioned before. The .444 Marlin will tackle anything on the North American continent. It's probably overkill for whitetail, but can be downloaded with 240gr bullets for that mission. It has plenty of ooomph for bears and you have a wide selection of bullets for that duty.
I have a Marlin Outfitter (444P). It's light, small, and carries easily.
The downside to this caliber is the trajectory, especially with heavier bullets. You really have to practice with this round to learn proper holdover.
I have a Marlin Outfitter (444P). It's light, small, and carries easily.
The downside to this caliber is the trajectory, especially with heavier bullets. You really have to practice with this round to learn proper holdover.
cleve land
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2002
- Messages
- 39
35 Whelen; 30-06;308. I prefer the first
Dionysusigma
Member
From grasshoppers to angry bull elephants, I'd have to suggest .50 BMG.
It *will* kill whatever it hits.
It *will* kill whatever it hits.
dogngun
Member
.30-06.
If you want 1 "do it all" rifle, in the deer to bear range, the '06 is a great choice. Loaded ammo is available anywhere, is reasonably cheap, and your choice of handload formulas, bullets, powders and rifles is huge.
It's easy to load, and easy to shoot, highly accurate, and has a significant military history.
Mark
If you want 1 "do it all" rifle, in the deer to bear range, the '06 is a great choice. Loaded ammo is available anywhere, is reasonably cheap, and your choice of handload formulas, bullets, powders and rifles is huge.
It's easy to load, and easy to shoot, highly accurate, and has a significant military history.
Mark
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