Am I More Accurate than My Uniflow? Nope!

[LiveLife]

you still have to be consistent with your technique

Yes, and I had the benefit of testing small granule/flake/ball powders that meters very well.

With medium and particularly large flake powders, results may be different.

I have Promo so I may try scooping it next.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Yes, and I had the benefit of testing small granule/flake/ball powders that meters very well.

With medium and particularly large flake powders, results may be different.

I have Promo so I may try scooping it next.

700X can be a challenge if you have any.

 

[LiveLife]

Mini myth busting/confirming continued from post #46 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-my-uniflow-nope.912127/page-2#post-12454664

700X can be a challenge if you have any.

No but someone in my group buy liked it and produced accurate loads.

Those are great results with the scoops ... have to be consistent with your technique

I have Promo so I may try scooping it next.

This is Promo I paid $92/8 lbs with lot number of 056 2 072910

Promo - Forward scoop and light tap using 0.5 cc scoop:

1. 3.5 gr
2. 3.5
3. 3.4
4. 3.5
5. 3.5
6. 3.6
7. 3.5
8. 3.6
9. 3.6
10. 3.6

Promo - Reverse scoop and light tap using 0.5 cc scoop:

1. 3.5 gr
2. 3.5
3. 3.5
4. 3.6
5. 3.4
6. 3.6
7. 3.6
8. 3.5
9. 3.5
10. 3.5

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Mini myth busting/confirming continued from post #46 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-my-uniflow-nope.912127/page-2#post-12454664


No but someone in my group buy liked it and produced accurate loads.


This is Promo I paid $92/8 lbs with lot number of 056 2 072910

Promo - Forward scoop and light tap using 0.5 cc scoop:

1. 3.5 gr
2. 3.5
3. 3.4
4. 3.5
5. 3.5
6. 3.6
7. 3.5
8. 3.6
9. 3.6
10. 3.6

Promo - Reverse scoop and light tap using 0.5 cc scoop:

1. 3.5 gr
2. 3.5
3. 3.5
4. 3.6
5. 3.4
6. 3.6
7. 3.6
8. 3.5
9. 3.5
10. 3.5

Interesting. I have used Red Dot since around 1980, always with a scoop, mostly Lee scoops, and have always made good, accurate loads. They are good tools but as with anything else, it is the person, not the tool, which determines how well the job is done.

 

[LiveLife]

it is the person, not the tool, which determines how well the job is done.

< Stretches out arms forward and spreads fingers >

Oh good, they are not shaking ... yet.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

< Stretches out arms forward and spreads fingers >

Oh good, they are shaking ... yet.

Um, “are shaking”?

 

[LiveLife]

Um, “are shaking”?

Ooops, meant to post "not shaking" ... Don't get old

 

[CQB45ACP]

Mini myth busting/confirming continued from post #46 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-my-uniflow-nope.912127/page-2#post-12454664


No but someone in my group buy liked it and produced accurate loads.


This is Promo I paid $92/8 lbs with lot number of 056 2 072910

Promo - Forward scoop and light tap using 0.5 cc scoop:

1. 3.5 gr
2. 3.5
3. 3.4
4. 3.5
5. 3.5
6. 3.6
7. 3.5
8. 3.6
9. 3.6
10. 3.6

Promo - Reverse scoop and light tap using 0.5 cc scoop:

1. 3.5 gr
2. 3.5
3. 3.5
4. 3.6
5. 3.4
6. 3.6
7. 3.6
8. 3.5
9. 3.5
10. 3.5

Sorry if I missed it, but did you set a target amount in advance you were shooting for? (Double pun intended) Or only trying to be consistent with your first scoop or consistency with that sized scoop’s “advertised” capacity?

In my second test (mentioned in post #20), using Bullseye & a .5cc scoop, I was going for one of my real world Bullseye loads of 4.5gr (which is less than a full scoop & looks like the photo) and got:
4.5
4.5
4.5
4.5
4.5
4.4
4.4
4.4
4.6
4.7

 

[CQB45ACP]

With handgun ammo a good powder measure should drop accurately enough for anything with the exception of maybe top level bullseye competitors. I do check my measure before each session by dropping 10 loads and weighing that on a triple beam scale.I load some 45-70 and did use a scale and trickler to confirm the weights. Loaded 250 rounds earlier this year. For handgun competition I load 9mm, 40 S&W and 45acp. I also load some 44 special and magnums, 44 Russian, 45 Colt and 38 special. Just a few hundred at a time for the revolver ammo. Also 44-40 for rifle.

You right, a good measure should drop accurately “enough” and my Uniflow sure looks that way, but I want exact. It’s my thing.

Like some folks fight for the last bazillionth of an inch in COL, I go for exact powder weights. (Mine are easier to achieve however)

 

[CQB45ACP]

Those are great results with the scoops if you can get where you want to be. I scoop with black powder. But it's much more dependent on the diligence of the person scooping then when using a powder drop. With a standard powder measure you still have to be consistent with your technique moving the handle.

Depends.

Scooping technique has nothing to do with my results. Mine are strictly visual—does the amount in the scoop look like the right amount? How I got it doesn’t matter to me.

Now it happens that over time I can get really close more quickly by repeating the same technique but that’s not the determining factor at all.

And I’m left handed and can’t even begin to use same technique with my right hand. Just can’t. But I can easily see if I’ve achieved my target.

BTW, my visual technique is borne from something I learned decades ago during a public tour of Bureau of Engraving & Printing way before modern copying & printing made counterfeiting easier. I’ve used it for many things in life since then.

Anyway, to determine counterfeit currency back in the day, examiners we’re taught to eat, drink, breath, live how legitimate currency looked and felt so when they came across a counterfeit, it would be immediately recognizable as not legit.

They couldn’t necessarily tell WHAT was wrong initially but they didn’t need to. They only needed to know it was bogus.

Bank employees were apparently also trained in similar techniques. Today of course they have marking pens, lights, and lots of sophisticated fool proof stuff and counterfeiting is more prolific than ever.

Edit: sorry, misread your technique comment. You were referring to powder dropper technique and I agree that’s why I said I practiced my up & down “thunk” before measuring the throw. Back when I began reloading it was hard to grasp how significant consistency of that technique was/is.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Yes, and I had the benefit of testing small granule/flake/ball powders that meters very well.

With medium and particularly large flake powders, results may be different.

I have Promo so I may try scooping it next.

No, actually, I don’t have to be consistent with my technique as I described to Smokin, above.

Can’t say about powder type other than I get same quality of results with Bullseye, BE-86, Sport Pistol, and W231. (Same type powders I guess) Haven’t tried others because I havent used others in a couple of years.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Ooops, meant to post "not shaking" ... Don't get old

Never.

 

[LiveLife]

I did the mini "myth busting/confirming" for casual amusement as results were highly dependent on person conducting the scooping.

... very informal, non-scientific, subjective and brief "myth busting/confirming" of using Lee dippers

Never.

Perhaps already too late.

 

[BJung]

Myth busting/confirming time!


I just did a very informal, non-scientific, subjective and brief "myth busting/confirming" of using Lee dippers.

Thank you for doing this informal test. I don't own a lee scooper set but will consider now purchasing a set in the future.

When I assemble any test load I use my Uniflow to drop a set amount on my 5-0-5 pan and trickle up because I want exact. But, this thread has me wondering if the +/- 0.1gr is a big deal. There is such as think called a Node and the 0.1 difference probably doesn't matter.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I did the mini "myth busting/confirming" for casual amusement as results were highly dependent on person conducting the scooping.

​

Perhaps already too late.

Yes casual amusement. Mine too. But I was also making the point that by doing this or that I could set a target AND get “this” close on a consistent basis.

My question is did you set a target then test to see how close you could get over and over again? Or, simply test to see how consistent your scoops would be without regard to a predetermined target?

 

[BJung]

I assume that the more consistent the load, the better the printed target. Yet, how are you operating your Uniflow? Are you refilling it after the hopper level drops so much and tap the side? I've read a thread where a reloader taped a fishing aerator to this Uniflow so the kernels would settle the same.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I assume that the more consistent the load, the better the printed target. Yet, how are you operating your Uniflow? Are you refilling it after the hopper level drops so much and tap the side? I've read a thread where a reloader taped a fishing aerator to this Uniflow so the kernels would settle the same.

If you’re asking me…

I'm not using it. I have used it and thinks it’s fine and obviously pretty accurate but I now dip and measure by hand/scale and have no need nor interest in going back.

Was just providing a comparison to support or refute my claim I was just as accurate as the Uniflow. I refuted it.

 

[Smokin Gator]

You right, a good measure should drop accurately “enough” and my Uniflow sure looks that way, but I want exact. It’s my thing.

Like some folks fight for the last bazillionth of an inch in COL, I go for exact powder weights. (Mine are easier to achieve however)

Do you chronograph your ammo to see how consistent the results are from your method? Or accuracy testing to see what accuracy improvement you might get? I chronograph mine whenever I make a change. Also several times a year at major matches they chronograph your ammo with your gun to make sure you reach a minimum required power factor. I get consistent results.

 

[CQB45ACP]

No not at all necessary since I’m making same load either way just two different methods—dipper or dropper—but again the load is the same.

This thread was intended to be just about comparing the mechanics of the two methods.

 

[LiveLife]

My question is did you set a target then test to see how close you could get over and over again? Or, simply test to see how consistent your scoops would be without regard to a predetermined target?

I was simply trying to be consistent with my scooping and light tapping to be as consistent as possible.

I was actually surprised at some of the powders and consistency of charges I got with scooping.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I was simply trying to be consistent with my scooping and light tapping to be as consistent as possible.

I was actually surprised at some of the powders and consistency of charges I got with scooping.

Yeah it’s interesting to actually document it vs. speculating. Yours were very very consistent.

Because I’m doing it visually, some weights are easier to achieve consistency than others. For instance, 4.5gr in a .5cc dipper is way easier to recognize as correct or close than say 3.9gr in the same dipper.

But, when I’m actually loading I don’t go for “on the nose” results because I know I’ll go over now and again and taking a little powder out of the pan is annoying to me. I’d rather tap or trickle a little more in to hit my load goal.

To belabor the point, when my finished/weighed load is to be 4.5gr, by definition I’m weighing every load and prepared to trickle up, so I’m fine with 10/10 scoops at just under the goal.

 

[DanK3Pos]

I have a big static problem with my dippers. Powder sticks all over them, adding to the inconsistency and mess.
How do you all get rid of the static on the plastic dipper? I've rubbed them with a used dryer sheet and that helped but a little.

Seed Slick. I use it in my Dillon powder measures, my powder dippers, my powder pans and my funnels. Anything that comes into contact with powder and powder sticks to. Just yesterday I noticed powder sticking to the handle on my powder dipper. I made the mistake of wiping it clean with a paper towel. Now -all- the powder was sticking to it. I got out my can of Seed Slick and swirled it around in there. It isn't sticking now.

Ironically, this stuff is made for farming equipment, specifically, lubricating seed meters -- very similar to dispensing powder. That 1lb jug will last a lifetime. Several lifetimes.
https://www.amazon.com/Seed-SLIK-Graphite-Powder-1lb/dp/B008CQFMGG

 

[DanK3Pos]

On another thread regarding Lee dippers, I made the claim/assertion I was as accurate using a Lee dipper as was my Uniflow throwing charges.

I meant what I said, but then thought to myself “that’s a pretty bold statement for a one-eyed fat man.”

I was confident in making it because my recollection was the Uniflow wasn’t all that great and that’s one reason I no longer used it.

Well boy was I wrong. I just tested the Uniflow throwing 4.5gr of Bullseye.

After practicing getting my up thunk, down thunk technique consistent, I threw 10 charges—eight were 4.5gr two 4.4gr. (I prefer my “bad” charges to be under v. over cause it’s hard to trickle down so this was good.)

I knew I couldn’t dip that consistently, so I ended the test, conceded the contest, emptied and cleaned out the Uniflow, put it back on the shelf, and put away the powder. That’s when I recalled a significant reason I no longer used the Uniflow. Relative to putting away a dipper, it’s a PIA. Especially if I was going to change powders.

And, since I’m after 10/10 identical charges not 8/10 and thus would have to weigh & prepare to trickle up each throw anyway, there’s no advantage for me to use the Uniflow over the dippers.

Uhh. Why not throw to 4.4gr, then trickle to 4.5gr? BTW, I can get pretty darn accurate with my dippers, too. However, I'm not certain that throwing under and trickling up wouldn't be more efficient. As for clean up, I don't ever clean out the inside of my powder instruments. That black stuff that accumulates is what the powder manufacturers add to powder to help it flow. It also helps the powder flow in your Uniflow. I learned the hard way with a dirty Dillon powder measure. Also, you have to pour the powder back into the jug from whatever you were dipping out of. Not really a big difference between that and emptying the Uniflow.

I did just load 50 .243 yesterday with the dip and trickle method, while my Redding powder measure stayed on the shelf. I've also got a Chargemaster Lite, but I think I'm just as fast with the dippers.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Uhh. Why not throw to 4.4gr, then trickle to 4.5gr? BTW, I can get pretty darn accurate with my dippers, too. However, I'm not certain that throwing under and trickling up wouldn't be more efficient. As for clean up, I don't ever clean out the inside of my powder instruments. That black stuff that accumulates is what the powder manufacturers add to powder to help it flow. It also helps the powder flow in your Uniflow. I learned the hard way with a dirty Dillon powder measure. Also, you have to pour the powder back into the jug from whatever you were dipping out of. Not really a big difference between that and emptying the Uniflow.

I did just load 50 .243 yesterday with the dip and trickle method, while my Redding powder measure stayed on the shelf. I've also got a Chargemaster Lite, but I think I'm just as fast with the dippers.

I do…see later posts. Recall I ran a test then explained my actual process.

Not much of the rest is germane to my situation as prior posts indicate but I appreciate you engaging.

edit: that was a crappy response on my part

I think I’ve got a fairly efficient process but improving it isn’t a goal at this point. I like it.
And I’ve gotta clean up or at least put stuff away cause my reloading area is also my work bench. But I never clean off the patina