Am I reading this thing right?

[MCgunner]

I bought a Cabela's "Hawkin Hunter Carbine" 10 or 15 years ago. I've not really used it much, but when I got it, I played around with bullet types, loading Pyrodex for rifles, 120 grains by volume, behind either a 385 grain Hornady conical or a 240gr Hornady sabot .44 bullet for best results. The thing has a 1:25 twist. I found that after three rounds, which seemed very accurate, the thing would go to squat for accuracy. Then, I would fire three rounds, scrub the bore best I could in the field with soapy water, dry it out, reload it, fire three more. Seemed like the bore was gumming up with powder residue. Is this a problem with such rapid rifling twists? I guess it's the first shot that counts. It's a very handy little smoke pole for hunting.

I just ask cause I've been shooting cap and ball for a long time and have never had this sort of accuracy degradation. I can shoot that Ruger Old Army until the cylinder begins to gum up and it still is a tack driver.

I had a problem with that carbine, too, with ignition. It took number 11 percussion caps. I bought a little gadget that screws into the nipple hole, holds a small rifle magnum primer. I've not had an ignition problem since. I think a little wax over this deal and it'd be pretty rain resistant, too.

 

[mec]

With my slow twist Lyman Great Plains rifle, I had to lightly swab the bore after every second shot of 2f black power to maintain a group. Pyrodex was much more forgiving and I coud get several shots before the accuracy went south. Both leave residue but black seems to build up a lot faster.

 

[AK-NOW]

loading Pyrodex for rifles, 120 grains by volume

I would start out with 90 grains of Pyrodex see how it does, but load no more than 100 grains of Pyrodex. Anything over 100 grains is probably not burning all the way before leaving the muzzle.
You could also try some Tripple7 or Clean Shot instead of Pyrodex and like "mec" posted black powder is the most fouling.

 

[enfield]

That's what I was thinking - 120 grains is one heck of a stout load. I only load 90 grains in my .54 Hawken for round ball.

 

[MCgunner]

That's what I was thinking - 120 grains is one heck of a stout load. I only load 90 grains in my .54 Hawken for round ball.

I have shot some 90 grain loads. Easier on the shoulder, but I found no cure for the fouling thing. I think I even chronographed both loads, got data in my notebook somewhere.

Next time I'm near the gun shop, I'm going to check out that "clean shot". I looked at some of that clean substitute stuff when it first came out. It was kinda high and I never got around to buying a pound, but I need to try it. Be nice if I didn't have to scrub that thing so much. I don't really care about the authenticity of it, the smell, and all that rubbish.

Thanks for the replies, guys. This site seems very informative.

 

[RON in PA]

If you want the best accuracy in a muzzleloader wipe between shots. It may be a pain, but it's part of the game.

 

[AK-NOW]

MCgunner,

Here (http://www.cleanshot.com/data.htm) is a web site with data on the "Clean Shot", I've been wanting to try it since seeing and talking to another shooter with a muzzel loader at the range. After 4-5 shots he ran a patch down the barrel and was barely dusty, but I have heard there is a build-up of residue at the breach.
Are there any "smoke pole shooters" that have used "Clean Shot" provide some first hand information on the stuff?

 

[Beartracker]

You may want to do some checking on the Clear shot before you buy it. Most people are not to happy with the ignition they get from it.
After building and shooting many muzzle loaders I have found that the best thing to do is run a spit patch down the bore after every shot and follow it with a dry patch. What I mean by a spit patch is just that. Place a patch in your mouth and get it good and wet. Your saliva is full of acid and it will cut the powder crud like nothing else will.
You don't say if your useing a patch under the ball or not but a good wonder lube patch will make a "BIG" difference in how clean and smooth running your bore will stay. Your also shooting a really high load of powder and it's not needed and can cause less accuracy and more fouling.

 

[RCL]

Just thinking out loud here, and I'm wondering if shooting such a heavy load under a pure lead conical, with the fast twist, might be leaving some lead fouling in the bore also.

 

[MCgunner]

Well, for sure if I try that Clean Shot, I'll back off to 90 grains. I read somewhere that the Clean Shot, dispite the claims, is not a 1:1 replacement for black powder. Seems it's hotter. And, after some shooting, I gotta agree that 90 grains makes more sense. I shot some 90 grain loads and there weren't a whole lot of difference in velocity, but I still had the accuracy problems. I just had never lived with a smoke pole, before. Apparently, the bore swabbing thing is a routine I hadn't learned about. I sorta figured cleaning the bore was a necessity. However, a bud of mine wasn't having quite the problems I was. He was shooting a similar gun with a 1:48 twist, but was using patched balls mostly. I bet the patch and whatever lube he was using was helping a lot.

The leading thing might happen with the conicals, but the sabots wouldn't. However, they could, I guess, leave a plastic residue behind.

Spit? Hmm, only a clean patch every time I reckon...

 

[Dr.Doug]

My "fast twist" rifle is a 50 cal with a 1:48 twist; it will shoot about a dozen Hornady 385 gr Great Plains bullets over 90 gr of Pyrodex RS before the accuracy falls off. I'd agree that a lighter charge might solve many of your problems- but I also fall into the 'swab the bore between shots' group as well. My "slow twist" round ball shooter (1:66) needs a bath between shots to maintain accuracy. Better experiment some more- Oh, darn, more shooting!

 

[Beartracker]

Muzzle loaders can be finicky about what they like and don't like as far as type of powder, the amount, sixe of bullet or ball and thickness of the patch with a ball.It takes some time to work up a load that will give you the results you need or desire. That'a also true of modern guns and some guy's spend weeks and a fortune finding what shoots best from there gun's.
By the way, That Hawkin Carbine is a fine rifle and can shoot the wings off a nat at 75 yards and never hurt the nat.

 

[MCgunner]

Well, now you've got me fired up to go pop a few caps through it.