Am I using too much crimp?

[Beelzy]

You don't "crimp" pistol ammo that headspaces on the case mouth people.

One only removes the "bell" on the case from expanding, that's it.

If you need to crimp .40 and .45 ammo and it's not a cast lead bullet with a "Crimp Groove", you're doing it wrong.

 

[blazerking78]

Not to nit pick or argue but.... isnt removing the bell done by.. well.. crimping the case mouth back to proper size? At first I was going way overboard with it but I think I have it ironed out now. I have tested them in my pistol and they chamber good and do not push the bullet into the case any further. They are the same length going in as when they come out unfired.

Rember foorrrtayys are for wappers.

 

[Walkalong]

In auto calibers neck tension is needed to stop the bullet from being pushed back in the case. The crimp is for removing the bell for good function, but it won't make up for poor neck tension.

To help maintain good neck tension, don't overbell your cases, just enough to get the bullet started straight with no lead shaving.

No amount of crimp can make up for poor neck tension, in auto's or revolvers. Over crimping can ruin neck tension though.

 

[Cloudpeak]

As Walkalong stated so correctly:

In auto calibers neck tension is needed to stop the bullet from being pushed back in the case. The crimp is for removing the bell for good function, but it won't make up for poor neck tension.

To help maintain good neck tension, don't overbell your cases, just enough to get the bullet started straight with no lead shaving.

No amount of crimp can make up for poor neck tension, in auto's or revolvers. Over crimping can ruin neck tension though.

Bullet retention is a function of your sizer die and/or the expander plug. When first setting up for loading a new pistol cartridge, I like to make up some dummies, drop them in the chamber (with barrel removed) to check for fit and then cycle them through the pistol several times to test for setback.

Record the COAL before test chambering and then cycle them through the pistol with the dummy in the mag and by dropping the slide to chamber. I do this 6 or 7 times, checking for setback each trip through. If I get setback, I turn down the expander plug a bit until setback is no longer a problem.

 

[Roccobro]

A Winchester factory Q load for reference.



Justin

 

[Steve C]

You don't "crimp" pistol ammo that headspaces on the case mouth people.

Nonsense, every factory semi auto cartridge you buy is taper crimped and crimp does hold the bullet tighter in place. With soft bullets like lead or copper clad the crimp doesn't hold as well but with jacketed a good taper crimp will correct any set back problems you may be geting when the round feeds.

You don't want to crimp smaller than the end of the chamber dimension so the bullet could slip past it nor do you want to use a roll crimp on a semi auto that headspaces on the case mouth.

 

[Beelzy]

Great.....start confusing folks with "Taper Crimp" now.

I don't see any taper crimps on my factory .45 ammo FWIW. Maybe you are thinking of
the infamous Factory Crimp??

 

[230therapy]

Calipers + recommendation in reloading manual = happy shooting

Seriously, if you cannot follow instructions, you shouldn't be reloading. It's only a few ten thousands of PSI one inch from your hand. Don't be a Darwin Candidate. Read your manuals and follow them. The ABC's of Reloading is a good way to start.

 

[Walkalong]

Steve C is right. All auto calibers are taper crimped. It is not much of a crimp, just enough to remove the bell and a little more. It does help hold the bullet. My point about neck tension is it is what does 90 plus % of the work in auto calibers holding a bullet put and not being set back.

Some folks are under the impression that the crimp does all of it and a good crimp will fix poor neck tension. It will not in an auto because there can not be enough of it due to the round headspacing of the case mouth. With revolver rounds we can crimp pretty heavily and it can help neck tension out a great deal more, but I still say it can not make up for poor neck tension by its self as far as good ignition is concerned. You need both.

 

[243winxb]

What Brand of Dies Are you Using, Lee?

Lee dies taper then roll crimp. Looks like your going past the taper part of the die and hitting the roll crimp on some of your loaded rounds. Case length will have something to do with this. When setting up you crimp dies, adjust it using the longest case of the lot. What bullet are you using, plated??

 

[Walkalong]

Lee roll crimp dies for revolver cailber have a taper leading to the roll, but their auto caliber crimp dies just have a taper.

 

[243winxb]

Lee roll crimp dies for revolver cailber have a taper leading to the roll, but their auto caliber crimp dies just have a taper.

Good to know, ty I was going by whats on Lees website.

Carbide die set

Carbide handgun dies contain the carbide sizer, the powder through expanding die, the seater/crimping die, a powder dipper, shell holder and load data. The seater/crimper die applies a modified taper crimp and eventually a roll crimp negating the need for a separate taper crimp die.

 

[Tinpig]

As an aside, the Lee Classic loader kits for .45 ACP (and for 9mm and M1 Carbine) don't provide a flaring tool and instruct you not to crimp. After resizing, you chamfer the inside of the case mouth and seat the bullet with no crimp, on account of headspacing on the case mouth.

Tinpig

 

[Walkalong]

I was going by whats on Lees website

I was going by looking in the dies.

 

[243winxb]

Lee-The seater/crimper die applies a modified taper crimp and eventually a roll crimp

Email reply from Lee

Re: 45 ACP Die
Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:43 AM
From:
"Lee Precision" <[email protected]>
View contact details
To:
"Joe1944usa" <[email protected]>
The seater/crimper die in all of our Carbide Die Sets (including 45 ACP) does both a taper crimp and roll crimp as stated in the die explanation you have below.

Thank You
Lee Precision

At 10:16 PM 9/22/2009, you wrote:
> HI, Does the seater/crimper die in the 45 acp Carbide die set do both, taper and roll crimp?? As stated in your Die set explanations? "Carbide die set
>
> Carbide handgun dies contain the carbide sizer, the powder through expanding die, the seater/crimping die, a powder dipper, shell holder and load data. The seater/crimper die applies a modified taper crimp and eventually a roll crimp negating the need for a separate taper crimp die." Thank you, Joe.

 

[Walkalong]

All I can say is my .32 auto & .40 S&W seater both have a crimp "ledge" that looks like a very steep taper crimp ledge or a very tapered roll crimp ledge, but there are definitely not two defined surfaces. The Redding Profile Crimp die has a standard looking tapered spot found in taper crimp dies, and it leads into a standard looking sharp angled ledge like a standard roll crimp die has. Two distinct crimp surfaces stacked together. The Lee dies simply do not. Maybe the new ones do (these are 2 to 3 years), but these do not.

My Lee .32 long seater has a standard looking steep angled ledge in it to roll crimp. No taper, no dual crimp surface.

I have a Lee .38 Super seater that I don't use running around here somewhere that I can't find, but it won't roll crimp either. I did use it for a while before I replaced it with a Dillon.

So I dunno.....

 

[243winxb]

In 1986 Lee's Modified Taper Crimp is Born?

http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalog/dies-crimp.html It would seem Lee modified there dies in 1986, so a separate taper crimp die is no longer needed. The new die tapers and rolls all in 1 die. Old dies would look different for sure.

Lee Taper Crimp Die

These dies offer little or no advantage when used wth 1986 or newer Lee Dies as the crimp angle is already modified taper crimp. Jacketed bullets must have a crimp groove.

 

[Walkalong]

Since I bought my Lee .32 L & .32 ACP dies a couple of years ago, they must have been sitting on the shelf a long time. Another thing to consider is Lee's advertising. They stretch/twist things a little. Not knocking Lee, They are an important part of the reloading market, but Mr Lee has a wonderful way with words.

If they want to call that 45ish degree ledge a "modified taper crimp" that will roll crimp also, so be it. I'll just disagree with Mr Lee. The "taper crimp" is at a severe angle, and is going to make adjustment to only remove the bell very critical, but it will do a pretty good roll crimp, although not as tight/short of a curve as a standard roll crimp die.

 

[The Bushmaster]

4 or 5 years ago I called Lee to find out if my 9mmX19 and .45 ACP die set were roll crimp or taper crimp. The answer I got was that both were and are taper crimp...