Ammo Identification

[Bartkowski]

I picked up some .30-06 armor piercing ammo today and would like to know what it is worth. I can't take pictures but will describe the headstamps...

1. I have ones with a "DM" on one side and then a "43" on the opposite.
2. "DM" on top, "42" on opposite side.
3. "RA" on top, "43" on the opposite side.
4. "DEN" on top, "42" on the opposite side.
5. "DEN" on top, "43" on the opposite side.
6. "DEN" on top, "44" on the opposite side.

I also bought some 8x57 I would like to identify, the has "7.92", "MM", and "42".

Thanks in advance.

 

[rcmodel]

U.S. GI headstamps:
http://www.odcmp.org/1101/USGI.pdf

It is all corrosive primed WWII stuff. (1942, 1943, 1944)

It is all common enough to be worth no more then any other old corrosive surplus ammo.

rcmodel

 

[Bartkowski]

Good enough, I paid under $.25 a shot for it so it can at least be blasting ammo. I did find a site that had the ammo I bought for $2-$4 a shot??? http://www.ammo-one.com/30-06SINGLES.html Are they just scamming people? Thanks for the help with the .30-06.

Anyone know about the 8mm? I just want to know the country it was made in. It came in loose in 44 round boxes if that helps.

 

[rcmodel]

Are they just scamming people?

Well, maybe, maybe not.

If someone is dumb enough to pay that to shoot it, I guess thay are.

But the single-round price is more likely aimed at cartridge collectors who just need one round to fill a hole in a collection of headstamps, etc.

rcmodel

 

[Bartkowski]

Makes sense, but it seems like it would make even more sense to buy a whole box of 20 for the same price. That is of course, assuming you can find the ammo.

 

[Bartkowski]

Anyone else have some input about the 8mm?

 

[rcmodel]

7.92mm ammo made in Canada in 1942?
Or 7.92mm ammo made for the CIA in the 1950's??

You decide.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19

rcmodel

 

[Jim Watson]

I gotta go with the Canadian theory, the thought of the CIA contracting fake 1940s ammo in the 1950s is just too far out. The British and Commonwealth tank machine gun from 1938 was the 8mm BESA, made by BSA, but based on a Czech design. (As was the Bren.) They wanted an aircooled belt fed gun and were willing to load 8mm ammo rather than try to redesign the ZB for rimmed .303.

In my youth I had a Luger and all the Canadian 9mm with similar "sterile" headstamps that my allowance would buy. Good stuff.

 

[rcmodel]

I gotta go with the Canadian theory

I agree.

However, a lot of things the CIA dreamed up during the cold war is "to far out" for many of us to believe.

Anyhow, if it was CIA "sterile" ammo, I doubt it would have been sold as surplus at a CIA garage sale.

rcmodel

 

[Bartkowski]

Alright, thanks for all the help. I figured the ammo was not worth any more than I paid for it, which is fine because I wanted to shoot it all anyway.

 

[FIFTYGUY]

The British and Commonwealth tank machine gun from 1938 was the 8mm BESA, made by BSA, but based on a Czech design. (As was the Bren.) They wanted an aircooled belt fed gun and were willing to load 8mm ammo rather than try to redesign the ZB for rimmed .303.

FWIW, the Brits redesigned the BMG (another existing aircooled belt fed) from using a common rimless round (.30-06) to their standard .303. It became the Aircraft Gun Mk II and Mk II* (the US called it the "Vickers AN-M2"). Worked well because the BMG uses pull-out style links and a T-slot bolt, so the rimmed .303 was no problem. Of course the BMG was also already being made in 8mm (including by Colt for foreign sales!) and a bunch of other calibers as well...

And as far as the ZB goes, it's understandable that the Brits didn't want to redesign it for the rimmed .303 - the ZB53 (Model 37) uses the "strip forward on chambering" action to delink the cartridges. There were enough problems gearing up the production of the thing as the BESA that they certainly didn't need additional headaches. The Brits also kept the Czech 15mm cartridge for the big version of the BESA on their armored vehicles.

The other important "ZB" is of course the ZB26/30 that the Brits adopted as the Bren. Obviously no problem redesigning it from 8mm to .303, and later to 7.62 NATO as the L4. In fact the Czechs themselves later made it work with their oddball 7.62x45mm and then the 7.62x39.

To bring us full circle to the Canadian .30-06, the Canadians also had a redesign of the BMG to not only change it from .30-06 to 7.62 NATO, but to also work with the NATO push-through belt links as well... which seems to have not been entirely satisfactory. The link design has the biggest influence over caliber choice, when it comes to feeding guns with push-through belts.

 

[max popenker]

http://www.ammo-one.com/30-06SINGLES.html Are they just scamming people?

No, they don't
I believe you bought several boxes of that stuff for shooting purposes.
But what if you (or me, or anyone else) need 1 (read - ONE) round for collector's purposes?
Ammo-one does just that - sells single rounds to ammo collectors worldwide.

I wish i could buy online single rounds (plus neutralization service) at your ordinary retail prices... But who will sell?

I know that, i spent a good amount of cash on Ammo-one site, filling my humble ammo collection and can recommend it heartly

 

[Bartkowski]

It makes sense to sell it for more than retail, but 12x more than retail? It just seemed like a lot.

All I really wanted to know about the 8mm ammo was country and the safety/quality of the ammo.

 

[Jim K]

I don't know of any 7.9 "cover" ammo, but there definitely was .30-'06 ammo made around 1950 for covert operations. It was headstamped AN, BN and CN with dates like 9 40. I had quite a lot of it and still have some around. It is non-corrosive and shoots very well. It seems to me that it has less recoil than the standard GI ammo of the period, and may have been made for use in countries where people are smaller than the average American.

There were claims that it was made for, or issued to, the 2506 Brigade for the Bay of Pigs operation. It was pretty definitely not made for that purpose, but it might have been issued or used for training. All I know is that a whole lot of it turned up on the market at about that time.

Jim