Foreign .22 identification

[Doctor Y]

Several years ago I bought a .22 caliber break action single shot .22. To date I have not been able to identify it.
On top of the barrel it is stamped, "FR. Reitz: Schwab.-Hall"; on the left side of the barrel is stamped "0,2gr H.G.P. M\71" and directly under that is "1,8 gr Bl".

On the right side of the action are more markings that are hard to describe but it shows some mysterious symbol over "B" over the same mysterious symbol over "U". Similar to below in format.

^
B
^
U

Similar symbols with some extra markings are on the underside of the barrel with the number "527" underneath.

The barrel is octagonal; the lever breaking mechanism is sculptured with finger holds; there are two triggers one of which is the set trigger with adjustment screw; the forearm and stock are of beautifully grained French (?) walnut with fine checkering and cheekpiece; there are sling holds on the barrel and stock; and sights are fixed but adjustable side to side.

If any of you can assist in identifying this rifle I would be greatful.

 

[hksw]

Huh, about a year ago there was a very similar question. Are the mysterious symbols crowns? Here's what I posted back then:

From the reference I have, the crown B is the proofmark for the finished barrel (single proof charge), crown U is the Untersuchungsstempel proofmark indicating the barrel has been inspected or examined. Crown G is the proofmark for rifled barrels.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-232018.html

Welcome aboard.

 

[Jim K]

In brief, it is German; Schwabisch Hall is a town northeast of Stuttgart. Reitz could have been the maker or the retailer.

The gun seems like a serious target rifle in the European style of that time (probably early 1900's). The markings indicate the cartridge uses 3 grains of "H.G." powder and a 27 grain bullet, which would put it in the .22 Long category and out of the "parlor gun" type. I don't know what "H.G." powder, M71, was, but the "71" does not necessarily mean a date. In the absence of any indication of black powder ("Sch. P."), I would assume it was a smokeless powder.

Jim

 

[JohnBT]

I did some searching last night and all I turned up was an on-line ad for a rifle with a "Reitz scope."

John

 

[Doctor Y]

Thanks for your replies. I, too, searched via Google and found lots of info re Schwab.-Hall that had nothing to do with the rifle. You have given me more information than I previously had.

I did send pictures and the description to Bonham's appraisal so if it meets their specifications maybe they will be able to provide additional information.

Thanks again for your input.

 

[Doctor Y]

Pardon me. I did not respond to some of your remarks. The mark I could not decipher could well be a crown. The barrel does have the additional "crown G" mark plus the "crown B" and "crown U" stamps on the underside of the barrel. Only the "crown B" and "crown U" were stamped on the receiver.

The underside of the barrel also had two additional numbers: a larger, relatively deeply stamped "4" and a not so large nor deeply stamped "527". The "4" was above the crown markings and the "527" was below.

And, you are correct in that the rifle will not accept a .22 long rifle.

Again, thanks for the information. This is truly a very valuable site for anyone interested in firearms.

 

[Roswell 1847]

Don't use high speed shorts or longs either. I've seen many of these older .22s with bulges in the chamber due to the softer metals they used back then.

 

[Doctor Y]

The following is the information I received from the appraiser at Bonham's.

Fr. Reitz would be the gunmaker. There are a number of gunmakers listed in Schwabisch Hall but I did not see any Fr. Reitz. There were many fine independent gunmakers throughout Germany prior to WWII and I have never found a good souce listing them.

Thanks for your quick reply. The marks are German commercial proof marks, post-1891. I could not find any proprietory name for the action but the lever release was used by quite a few makers. The scrolling lever/triggerguard is typically Germanic and is often seen on the schuetzen target rifles popular in the 1850-1930 period. Since it is a small caliber rifle but does not seem to have elaborate sights it is probably a hunting gun, the English would probably call it a rook rifle. I suppose it was probably made sometime between 1890 and 1910, maybe even later. Value is $500-1000.

 

[Jim K]

The three proofs are usually seen together, and collectors, especially Luger collectors, often refer to them as the "bug" mark.

FWIW, barrels are not normally bulged by using high pressure loads, but by firing a live round with a bullet stuck in the barrel. The bullet of the second round stops at the obstruction, and its kinetic energy is converted to heat, which softens the barrel and allows it to bulge. In the old days, ammunition was not always as reliable as today and stuck bullets were fairly common; invariably, someone decided to "shoot it out." Still, high speed .22 ammo is not recommended for use in those older guns. Pressures are higher and some old breech systems won't hold. Further, the faster bullet and hotter powder wreak havoc on the old soft rifling.

Jim