Ammunition in the vehicle (long term)

[Inebriated]

Yeah, so I am going to start leaving a G21 in my vehicle 24/7, but I'm wondering about how the ammo will hold up. Temperatures can hit 106 in summer, and about 15 in the winter, so I just want to know if I should rotate ammo out by the season, monthly, or what?

Also, the gun will be secured in a tethered lock box, and all that jazz, so let's not have this thread dissolve as so many do when the discussion involves storing a firearm in the vehicle.

 

[smalls]

Also, the gun will be secured in a tethered lock box, and all that jazz, so let's not have this thread dissolve as so many do when the discussion involves storing a firearm in the vehicle.

What's the point? How're you going to get to it if you need it?

The anniversary will be fine. Rotate it if you want, ammo is relatively cheap.

 

[Inebriated]

What's the point? How're you going to get to it if you need it?

The gun is not in the box when I'm driving. Only when I leave the vehicle.

 

[OARNGESI]

You wont have any issues

 

[Plan2Live]

so I am going to start leaving a G21 in my vehicle 24/7, but I'm wondering about how the ammo will hold up.

Oh, I would imagine it will hold up just the same as it would in a S&W, Springfield, Sig, Ruger, Keltec, Colt, Walther, CZ, Taurus, Kimber or even a High Point.

I rotate the ammunition stored in my vehicle (no gun mentioned) about every six months to one year. I keep a supply of water in the truck and I rotate that, same as I do with band-aids, pens, batteries, etc. so I don't see why I wouldn't rotate (and shoot) ammo stored in there just in case temperature and humidity extremes do affect it. An ounce of prevention and all that.

 

[BSA1]

Many years ago I conducted a long-term four season test storing a loaded gun in the trunk of my car.

The gun I used was a stainless steel Charter Arms 44 Special loaded with 5 factory rounds (back then all you could get was round nose lead). The gun and ammo was left continously in the trunk for a year with temperature ranges from well below freezing to summertime highs that in the trunk probably easily reached 120 degrees.

At the end of the test the gun survived just fine. It had three places where rust had formed which after being cleaned off left small pits about the size of a large pinhead. There was no other damage to the gun.

The ammo didn't survive as well. Three of the rounds failed to fire.

I would like to point out that this was a extreme test on my part. I have never had any ammo problems with the guns that I bring in from the weather regularly.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I've left a fair amount of my common stuff in my vehicle for 25 years straight.. 9, 38, 12, and .22. Never garaged and its been around. It all still works just fine. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Slamfire]

I read an article from USATCEs (center for Explosives Safety) about lubricated ammunition and called them up for data. Unfortunately the well intentioned guys there did not have any data and were just repeating the same tin can ammo coverup story that has been passed around since Hatcher published his Notebook in 1947.

But I did get to talk for a bit and found ammunition carried in military vehicles does need to be rotated or it causes malfunctions. I don’t remember the specific malfunctions but you can imagine that off road and tracked vehicles undergo high amplitude and high frequency shocks. I suspect there is enough energy to break up gunpowder into smaller particles. Might be enough to bust up the primer cake. It would take a shaker table to really verify what is going on.

Heat is bad, heat reduces the lifetime of gunpowder, breaks down gunpowder, raises pressures.

Combustion pressures will rise after high temperature storage.

INVESTIGATION OF THE BALLISTIC AND CHEMICAL STABILITY OF 7.62MM AMMUNITION LOADED WITH BALL AND IMR PROPELLANT
Frankfort Arsenal 1962

3. Effects of Accelerated Storage Propellant and Primer Performance

To determine the effect of accelerated isothermal storage upon propellant and primer performance, sixty cartridges from each of lots E (WC 846) and G (R 1475) were removed from 150F storage after 26 and 42 weeks, respectively. The bullets were then removed from half the cartridges of each lot and from an equal number of each lot previously stored at 70F. The propellants were then interchanged, the bullets re-inserted, and the cases recrimped. Thus, four variations of stored components were obtained with each lot.

Chamber pressures yielded by ammunition incorporating these four variations were as follows. These values represent averages of 20 firings.

It is my opinion that you should shoot up on a regular basis ammunition stored in cars and trucks, but I don’t have a good tested point for when. So, I will toss out, shoot it up every couple of years.

Here is some more information on the lifetime of ammunition with a very good table on heat versus ammunition lifetime.


UN manual on ammunition inspection.

Surveillance and in-service proof - the United Nations

http://www.un.org/disarmament/conva...20-Surveillance_and_In-Service Proof(V.1).pdf

 

[Trent]

Holy crap. The powder stored at 150 was damn near 2x more potent?!?!!

 

[Drail]

Yup. If you go to an IPSC USPSA match in Arizona you will see many competitors keeping their ammo in a cooler because depending on the powder used it may lose energy enough to where it won't classify as Major Power level if allowed to "bake". Other powders can get more vigorous when the temp. goes way down. Some powders generate more pressure when the temp goes up. It really is rocket science. I personally would not leave ammo exposed to temp extremes if I absolutely needed it to work every time. You also need to consider the temp at which your gun lube starts to thicken or evaporate away. I keep my carry gun and ammo at body temperature.

 

[mgmorden]

Ammo is pretty resilient. You could probably leave it in there forever and it'll be fine. Look how much old surplus ammo from the 50's and 60's we're still shooting.

Heck last week I heard some clanking in the dryer in my laundry. Opened it up and there were 3 of my 9mm reloads that had been in a pants pocket from when I went shooting.

These were handloads with cast-lead bullets. All the lube was gone from the tip but for grins and giggles I loaded them up and took them to the range. All 3 fired just fine.

This is after being submerged in water for 15-20 minutes and going through a full wash and dry cycle.

 

[mgmorden]

Yup. If you go to an IPSC USPSA match in Arizona you will see many competitors keeping their ammo in a cooler because depending on the powder used it may lose energy enough to where it won't classify as Major Power level if allowed to "bake". Other powders can get more vigorous when the temp. goes way down. Some powders generate more pressure when the temp goes up.

That has more to do with temperature of the environment during firing though then a permanently imparted characteristic.

Also I have to say that despite shooting USPSA in a relatively warm climate I have never seen anyone carry ammo in a cooler.

 

[Salmoneye]

Well...

I disagree with the 'no issues' notion...

I had a box of Aguila .22 ammo in the truck glove box for two years...Went to shoot it up one day, and had weak burn, hangfires, misfires, and a few actually went bang like they should...

I shot two other boxes from the exact same brick that had been in the house, and had no issues with any out of 100 rounds...

I don't leave ammo in the truck long term any longer...

 

[NavyLCDR]

Rimfire .22 ammo is much different than centerfire ammo because the bullet is not crimped into the case nearly as much, thus allowing the atmoshere to affect the powder charge.

The military will store ammo for years in all kinds of climate and we don't have any unusual problems.

 

[Gromulin]

I was told that its the vibration more than the heat or cold that will mess with propellant. I shoot CMP 30.06 from the 80's that's been stored and shipped all over the world, and never had as much as a hang-fire. When I was researching it a few years back, vibration seemed to be the big no-no. People would want to tumble the old rounds, like empty cases, to make them shiny (?? didn't get this either...). The old timers seemed to universally freak out whenever someone asked the question...I guess it turns slow burning rifle propellant fast by breaking down the size of the particles. Just my .02

 

[Warp]

Ammunition is extremely tough. I wouldn't (and don't) hesitate to leave it in the car, in all weather conditions, for long periods of time.

Also, I'm pretty sure the "tumbling/vibration breaks up the powder" thing is a myth/wives tale. People have tested it, every single one who has done so reported that it was fine, and I've never heard of an even half reputable report of tumbling ammunition causing a problem

 

[Crashbox]

I keep a couple of Speedloaders in my glove box and my GP100 .357 (usually) nearby with a wheelful. I used to rotate stock by shooting them up but haven't done that in a long time, reckon it wouldn't hurt to do it again but I've come to think that I can reduce the frequency to maybe once every three to four years (if that) and still be OK. YMMV.

 

[shiftyer1]

It really dont get cold here much, ammo i keep in the truck generally goes bang....it does get switched out every 3-10 years.........22lr gets switched out more...it is more unreliable. I live in central texas.....summer temps get a little warm

 

[coloradokevin]

You'll be fine. Rotate your ammo every couple of years if you feel the need to do so, but don't sweat the issue too much. I wouldn't store my match rifle ammo long-term in an environment with temperature extremes, but your pistol ammo will not likely have any problems.

Consider the following:

1) I'm still shooting through some 8mm Mauser surplus ammo that was loaded in 1935, and it has all worked without a problem (in the nearly 80 years since this stuff was loaded you can almost guarantee it has seen some unhealthy storage conditions at times).

2) My department rotates our duty ammo on a 3-year basis (they used to do 1-year, and decided that was unnecessarily expensive). My duty ammo is carried in hot and cold temperatures year-round, and is subjected to all of the weather that I am. My rifle ammo is stored with the rifle in the trunk of my patrol car every time I'm at work, and probably gets to go from at least -20F to 140F trunk temperatures during the course of any three-year carry period. We always shoot through the ammo at the time that we pick up our new ammo, and I've yet to have an ammo failure with this stuff.

 

[Slotback]

Every year I simply rotate it and shoot the old stuff up. No big deal.

 

[nyrifleman]

Just shoot the ammo every 3 months and you'll be fine. Actually, this is a good idea whether or not it's stored in the car. This makes sure that your ammo doesn't go bad, that your gun functions with your carry ammo, keeps you in some practice, etc.

 

[ZGunner]

Left a box of .22lr in the glovebox of my old truck for over 4 years. Hot and humid here in South Georgia in the summer. Took the box out last week and fired off about 100 of them. Same as if I'd just got home from the store with it.