An interesting page on shotgun tactics
- Thread starter pittspilot
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romulus
Member
It sure does...
C.R.Sam
Moderator Emeritus
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Well....
It looked and sounded good until I got to the pics.
That mount just doesn't cut it. Similar technique does work with the M-16, but not with stuff that kicks harder than the mouse gun. I freely admit my training and experience is a bit behind the curve, but that $%^&*( is nonsense.
Also, OK and MD are kinda far apart, but some of what's written sounds a lot like our old lesson plan from MD DOC, which I helped write. I care not a whit if it's plagiarism or parallel R&D, if it helps the good guys stay alive and do their duty, fine with me. But, I'm leery of folks that "borrow" without giving credit in general.
Maybe the good Capt can come to MD and we'll run a few fast COFs, him using that mount pictured and moi using the tried and true standard style.
Anyone willing to set this up?
It looked and sounded good until I got to the pics.
That mount just doesn't cut it. Similar technique does work with the M-16, but not with stuff that kicks harder than the mouse gun. I freely admit my training and experience is a bit behind the curve, but that $%^&*( is nonsense.
Also, OK and MD are kinda far apart, but some of what's written sounds a lot like our old lesson plan from MD DOC, which I helped write. I care not a whit if it's plagiarism or parallel R&D, if it helps the good guys stay alive and do their duty, fine with me. But, I'm leery of folks that "borrow" without giving credit in general.
Maybe the good Capt can come to MD and we'll run a few fast COFs, him using that mount pictured and moi using the tried and true standard style.
Anyone willing to set this up?
Lawyerman
Member
That flying elbow, chicken wing stance will get you a pretty good dressing down at most of the shooting schools I have been to. Make yourself a smaller target, do you give up some shoulder pocket? Sure but you keep yourself smaller. People shoot what they can see! Tuck it straight down, or nearly so.
That high elbow won't cut it in confined spaces either. It's a good way to get it broke if your moving fast and contact a building or other hard corner.
That high elbow won't cut it in confined spaces either. It's a good way to get it broke if your moving fast and contact a building or other hard corner.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
About the high elbow....
It's part of the 101 stuff because it helps a rookie find the right place to put the butt. Once the move's grooved in, most folks do well with a lower elbow.
Mine varies, but 45 degrees down is about it most of the time.
It's part of the 101 stuff because it helps a rookie find the right place to put the butt. Once the move's grooved in, most folks do well with a lower elbow.
Mine varies, but 45 degrees down is about it most of the time.
Mannlicher
Member
I will have to admit to not knowing about unloading the Remington 870 by pressing the shell latch on the right side of the receiver, then the little lever on the left side, to have the magazing unload into your hand like that. Neat trick, and much safer than racking the slide for each shell you are taking out. Even old dogs can learn new tricks.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Mann, I posted that back on TFL a couple times.
pittspilot
Member
Thanks for the replies.
Nightcrawler
Member
See a lot of troops in Iraq doing that with their M16s. Sure, your muzzle sticks out a half-inch or so less like that, but is that really worth such an awkward stance?
Lennyjoe
Member
I dont think I would mount like that shooting any long gun.
Expecially my 835 with 3 1/2" Turkey loads.
Expecially my 835 with 3 1/2" Turkey loads.
TrapperReady
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Nightcrawler - As I'm sure you are aware, there's a huge difference in recoil between an M16 and a 12ga. While the position I use for offhand in highpower shooting is even slightly higher than the one pictured, I'd never use that for a shotgun. Personally, I can see holding a light-recoiling rifle like that in certain circumstances.** Trying that with a shottie and some hot shells is lunacy.
** I've seen several pics of troops using that stance while covering POWs or other detainees. I played around with this a little bit, and if you have to hold on target for an extended period of time, it certainly makes it easier to do so. Also, at close range firing single shots, it's about as accurate as a more normal hold.
** I've seen several pics of troops using that stance while covering POWs or other detainees. I played around with this a little bit, and if you have to hold on target for an extended period of time, it certainly makes it easier to do so. Also, at close range firing single shots, it's about as accurate as a more normal hold.
Believe it or not that is similar to how I was taught but without the chicken wing thing. Did it with an 870, shot slugs and buck and a whole bunch of bird for two whole days and I didn't get bruised or anything. When the I was told to do it that way I was pretty worried about my collar bone shattering but it didn't happen.
Poohgyrr
Member
Yup. Elbow tucked, but otherwise it looks like what we just spent 4/5 days on. Our Head Instructor was an old clay bird shooter, and he was right. Works much better than some of us expected. Did fine with my personal 870, it was even fun, and I got paid for it too.
romulus
Member
That speaks for what I've always suspected in my case, a much greater drop at the heel is what I need - I've posted before about having a stock made that would drop an additional couple of inches, so the sight line would be pretty much what you see in that pic with the stock still snug in the pocket. Don't European stocks drop considerably more that American stocks?
shotgun tactics
It looks to me like the officer who wrote the articles used the exact techniques taught by "Gunsite Training Center". Pretty much word for word. This information is available on a DVD, I can't remember the name of it exactly, haven't watched it in awhile. If any one wants the title, let me know and I can dig it out.
It looks to me like the officer who wrote the articles used the exact techniques taught by "Gunsite Training Center". Pretty much word for word. This information is available on a DVD, I can't remember the name of it exactly, haven't watched it in awhile. If any one wants the title, let me know and I can dig it out.
shotgun tactics
Just remembered on tip I picked up from the Gunsite DVD. When loading, load one shell short of full. It makes transition from 00 to slug quicker. With 00 buck in the chamber you can insert a slug to the feed tube, and rack the buckshot out to feed the slug into the chamber.
Just remembered on tip I picked up from the Gunsite DVD. When loading, load one shell short of full. It makes transition from 00 to slug quicker. With 00 buck in the chamber you can insert a slug to the feed tube, and rack the buckshot out to feed the slug into the chamber.
pittspilot
Member
Okay. I am somewhat confused.
I guess I may have to give this a try with a light load in order to see for myself.
Has anyone else who thinks the mount is too high given it a shot, and come around?
I guess I may have to give this a try with a light load in order to see for myself.
Has anyone else who thinks the mount is too high given it a shot, and come around?
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