Analysis: A mini-Tet offensive in Iraq?

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canucksvt

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Here is an interesting analysis from a man who knows the Tet Offensive better than most people. Hopefully everyone will get something out of this.

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/index.html
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID...06-032203-3282r

Analysis: A mini-Tet offensive in Iraq?
By Arnaud de Borchgrave
UPI Editor at Large
Published 4/6/2004 4:12 PM

WASHINGTON, April 6 (UPI) -- Any seasoned reporter covering the Tet
offensive in Vietnam 36 years ago is well over 60 and presumably
retired or teaching journalism is one of America's 4,200 colleges and
universities. Before plunging into an orgy of erroneous and invidious
historical parallels between Iraq and Vietnam, a reminder about what
led to the U.S. defeat in Southeast Asia is timely.

Iraq will only be another Vietnam if the home front collapses, as it
did following the Tet offensive, which began on the eve of the Chinese
New Year, Jan. 31, 1968. The surprise attack was designed to overwhelm
some 70 cities and towns, and 30 other strategic objectives
simultaneously. By breaking a previously agreed truce for Tet
festivities, master strategist Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap in Hanoi calculated
that South Vietnamese troops would be caught with defenses down.

After the first few hours of panic, the South Vietnamese troops reacted
fiercely. They did the bulk of the fighting and took some 6,000
casualties. Vietcong units not only did not reach a single one of their
objectives -- except when they arrived by taxi at the U.S. Embassy in
Saigon, blew their way through the wall into the compound and guns
blazing made it into the lobby before they were wiped out by U.S.
Marines -- but they lost some 50,000 killed and at least that many
wounded. Giap had thrown some 70,000 troops into a strategic gamble
that was also designed to overwhelm 13 of the 16 provincial capitals
and trigger a popular uprising. But Tet was an unmitigated military
disaster for Hanoi and its Vietcong troops in South Vietnam. Yet that
was not the way it was reported in U.S. and other media around the
world. It was television's first war. And some 50 million Americans at
home saw the carnage of dead bodies in the rubble, and dazed Americans
running around.

As the late veteran war reporter Peter Braestrup documented in "Big
Story" -- a massive, two-volume study of how Tet was covered by
American reporters -- the Vietcong offensive was depicted as a military
disaster for the United States. By the time the facts emerged a week or
two later from RAND Corp. interrogations of prisoners and defectors,
the damage had been done. Conventional media wisdom had been set in
concrete. Public opinion perceptions in the United States changed
accordingly.

RAND made copies of these POW interrogations available. But few
reporters seemed interested. In fact, the room where they were on
display was almost always empty. Many Vietnamese civilians who were
fence sitters or leaning toward the Vietcong, especially in the region
around Hue City, joined government ranks after they witnessed Vietcong
atrocities. Several mass graves were found with some 4,000 unarmed
civil servants and other civilians, stabbed or with skulls smashed by
clubs. The number of communist defectors, known as "chieu hoi,"
increased fourfold. And the "popular uprising" anticipated by Giap,
failed to materialize. The Tet offensive also neutralized much of the
clandestine communist infrastructure.

As South Vietnamese troops fought Vietcong remnants in Cholon, the
predominantly Chinese twin city of Saigon, reporters, sipping drinks in
the rooftop bar of the Caravelle Hotel, watched the fireworks 2 miles
away. America's most trusted newsman, CBS' Walter Cronkite, appeared
for a standup piece with distant fires as a backdrop. Donning helmet,
Cronkite declared the war lost. It was this now famous television news
piece that persuaded President Johnson six weeks later, on March 31,
not to run. His ratings had plummeted from 80 percent when he assumed
the presidency upon Kennedy's death to 30 percent after Tet. His
handling of the war dropped to 20 percent, his credibility shot to
pieces.

Until Tet, a majority of Americans agreed with Presidents Kennedy and
Johnson that failure was not an option. It was Kennedy who changed the
status of U.S. military personnel from advisers to South Vietnamese
troops to full-fledged fighting men. By the time of Kennedy's
assassination in Nov. 22, 1963, 16,500 U.S. troops had been committed
to the war. Johnson escalated all the way to 542,000. But defeat became
an option when Johnson decided the war was unwinnable and that he would
lose his bid for the presidency in November 1968. Hanoi thus turned
military defeat into a priceless geopolitical victory.

With the Vietcong wiped out in the Tet offensive, North Vietnamese
regulars moved south down the Ho Chi Minh trails through Laos and
Cambodia to continue the war. Even Giap admitted in his memoirs that
news media reporting of the war and the anti-war demonstrations that
ensued in America surprised him. Instead of negotiating what he called
a conditional surrender, Giap said they would now go the limit because
America's resolve was weakening and the possibility of complete victory
was within Hanoi's grasp.

Hanoi's Easter offensive in March 1972 was another disaster for the
communists. Some 70,000 North Vietnamese troops were wiped out -- by
the South Vietnamese who did all the fighting. The last American
soldier left Vietnam in March 1973. And the chances of the South
Vietnamese army being able to hack it on its own were reasonably good.
With one proviso: Continued U.S. military assistance with weapons and
hardware, including helicopters. But Congress balked, first by cutting
off military assistance to Cambodia, which enabled Pol Pot's Khmer
Rouge communists to take over, which, in turn, was followed by a
similar Congressional rug pulling from under the South Vietnamese, that
led to rapid collapse of morale in Saigon.

The unraveling, with Congress pulling the string, was so rapid that
even Giap was caught by surprise. As he recounts in his memoirs, Hanoi
had to improvise a general offensive -- and then rolled into Saigon two
years before they had reckoned it might become possible.

That is the real lesson for the U.S. commitment to Iraq. Whatever one
thought about the advisability of Operation Iraqi Freedom, the United
States is there with 100,000 troops and a solid commitment to endow
Iraq with a democratic system of government. While failure is not an
option for Bush, it clearly is for Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., who
called Iraq the president's Vietnam. It is, of course, no such animal.
But it could become so if Congressional resolve dissolves.

Bui Tin, who served on the general staff of the North Vietnamese army,
received South Vietnam's unconditional surrender on April 30, 1975. In
an interview with the Wall Street Journal after his retirement, he made
clear the anti-war movement in the United States, which led to the
collapse of political will in Washington, was "essential to our
strategy."

Visits to Hanoi by Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark
and various church ministers "gave us confidence that we should hold on
in the face of battlefield reverses."

America lost the war, concluded Bui Tin, "because of its democracy.
Through dissent and protest it lost the ability to mobilize a will to
win." Kennedy should remember that Vietnam was the war of his brother
who saw the conflict in the larger framework of the Cold War and Nikita
Khrushchev's threats against West Berlin. It would behoove Kennedy to
see Iraq in the larger context of the struggle to bring democracy, not
only to Iraq, but the entire Middle East.

-0-

(Arnaud de Borchgrave covered Tet as Newsweek's chief foreign
correspondent and had seven tours in Vietnam between 1951 under the
French and 1972.)

Copyright © 2001-2004 United Press International
 
I arrived in Nam on Jan 4, 1969. The patches on the roofs were a reminder of the battles. Everybody there understood the beating the Cong had taken, and couldn't understand why nobody back home got this.
Anyway, the timing of the Iraqi uprising is telling. If they had waited 'till after the turnover, then it could be called an attempted coup, but before the trunover, it's an attempt to delay or prevent the establishment of an Iraqi-run government. It's a last-ditch effort. Looks like it won't work, either.
Interesting to hear about Syrians and Iranians among the captured. If these guys are members of their respective intellegence or special forces services, then that would be an act of war.
 
Well, if it's a mini-Tet, then we can expect to see US forces annihilate the Iraqi resistance and Dan Rather announcing on CBS News that we have just lost the war and it's time to negotiate a peace.

Rick
 
The problem is, they only report on how many Americans are killed. Lord knows it would be fantastic if we didn't have to lose any men, but that isn't going to happen. I'm sure our service men and women are giving out far more punishment than they are getting, but enemy casualties tend to increase support for war, and of course the media won't have that on air.
 
Mini Tet

Somehow i just dont get it! If there is a battle going on ,why dont they call for artillery or air support like we did in nam, after you run into resistance sall for the big boys, level the bldgs, or is this another Political War? Maybe the ghosts of older Presidents are making decisions? I still havent read too much about body counts, remember those lists that made us win the war? Maybe we should bring Gen. Schwarzkope back, he had the right idea, declare the city a free fire zone and bring in the Air Force, 4TH of July early. After spending 2yrs in Nam and watching some of the decisions made by the higher ups, it makes me sick, war is war,i dont care if the person is not in uniform or he is 8yrs old or if its a women or old man, thats the insanity of war! Go in do the job and get out!, they hate us over there anyway! Sorry for the rants, just my opinion!
 
Comparison of the current violence in Iraq to Tet of '68 is silly. While U.S. Forces may be facing isolated pockets of skilled opposition, there is no widespread military or guerrila force being directed by a "Higher Power" :D

The media are positively nauseating in their hand-wringing pseudo-analysis of the effects on Marines' families. "Mr. Smith, How do you feeeel about the death of your son, Lance Corporal Smith?" :barf: :barf: :barf:

Every day I hate the media more. :fire:

TC
TFL Survivor
 
Dangit...I made the same point (although in not nearly the detail) on my blog last night. Now I find out I'm not the first to get there.

Leatherneck, I don't think he's comparing the scale of Tet '68 to the current upwelling in Iraq. What is comparable is how most of the media portrayed the events, and how that is way out of line with the truth on the ground.
 
What I keep hearing in the news is:

"The Iraq timetable is election driven..." Over and over and over...

Gee, does anyone think that the election timetable isn't perhaps driving the insurgents as well? :rolleyes:
 
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Except for one thing: Iraq is MUCH WORSE than Viet nam, as far as trying to achieve a stable government. In Nam, there were essentially only two sides vying for control. In iraq, there are three major ethnic groups and within the dominat group (Shiites) there are multiple power cells all backed by individual militias.

In Nam, we backed one side which basically favored our presence and wanted us to win. IN Iraq, we have succeeded in losing the support of the major party (Shiites) who were backing our presence. They initially welcomed us believeing we would leave them in charge because they are the majority of the population. That support steadily eroded over time and now appears to be collapsing altogether.

What seems to be materializing is a situation where our only option is to set up a US backed puppet regime which we will have to maintain in power. Otherwise, the country is simply going to collapse into a civil war falling along ethnic lines.
 
I'm sure our service men and women are giving out far more punishment than they are getting, but enemy casualties tend to increase support for war, and of course the media won't have that on air.
Enemy dead estimates were on national news last night. next, they will be trotting out the old "kill ratios" we saw every night back in 1968 to show us how we are winning the war.

The rpoblem is, it is not a military war. It's a battle to set up a stable government. But the government we are trying to install does not fit the population , most of whom want an Islamic theocracy. The only thing they like about the US form of government is the dollars they send over.
 
But the government we are trying to install does not fit the population , most of whom want an Islamic theocracy.

Did you conduct a poll of Iraqis to arrive at this conclusion.

Is 6-10,000 of the Ayatollahs followers a MAJORITY in a country with a population of 49,000,000???

Oh silly me, Dan Rather said it right after the Cialis commercial so it must be true.:barf:
 
Except for one thing: Iraq is MUCH WORSE than Viet nam, as far as trying to achieve a stable government. In Nam, there were essentially only two sides vying for control.

I'd have to disagree that it is much worse. For example, the insurgents in this war do not have a safe haven to operate from (North Vietnam, Cambodia) and aren't being backed by two major world powers (China, Russia).

Furthermore, there were more than just "two sides" (I assume you mean Communist and South Vietnamese) to Vietnam. You had the Hoa Hao Buddhist sect (which luckily was also strongly anti-communist even if they didn't care for the South Vietnamese much) and many of the hill tribes (Meo) that had no allegiance at all the government of South Vietnam.

We managed to sort out most of those problems in Vietnam in just a few years during a very early stage in the war, so they aren't often given a lot of discussion. I think that considering the war in Iraq is barely approaching its first anniversiary, we are hardly in a position to accurately judge how well we are handling the new challenges posed by this war - which are definitely different; but I don't agree with "much worse".

EDITED TO ADD:

Enemy dead estimates were on national news last night. next, they will be trotting out the old "kill ratios" we saw every night back in 1968 to show us how we are winning the war.

But we WERE winning the war... that is the whole point of this piece we are commenting on. The North Vietnamese were suffering greatly and lost militarily. In every case where they achieved victory, it happened because we lost resolve and walked away.
 
In what way is Iraq worse? You cite the instability of multiple factions within Iraq. How is that bad for us? You'd rather we fight a single determined fighting force backed by two major powers (well-organized and with an army motivated by deathly fear of its own commanders) than splintered bands of whipped up testosterone jockeys?

Also, care to back up your statements regarding the Shia perception of American forces/the American mission? With facts, please?

P.S. A much better analogy to our mission in Iraq is the "unification of Greece" by Philip II. Vietnam is a poor comparison, IMO.

EDIT:

But we WERE winning the war... that is the whole point of this piece we are commenting on.

Agreed. After the Tet Offensive, the North Vietnamese Army was so mauled, they could not mount another serious offensive maneuver for four years
 
One thing I learned in the last year when I presented web links to prove all of the "liberal points" which are now known to be facts ie Iraq's "nukes", WMD's, Iraq's (non-existent) connection to AlQaeda, stockpiles of chemical weapons, etc.....: arguments are all resolved by time, so why bother arguing about them now. I have heard analysis by people whose job is NOT to paint a smiley face on this administration's folly, and none of them are even remotely optimistic about the future outcome of Iraq. The best case estimates were that a stable government would require at minimum eight to ten years of full US occupation to implement, based on the model of what was done in Japan. However, in Japan, it was much simpler: McArthur had absolute power, japan was a monolithic culture, and being an island, we were not faced with a steady influx of terrorists using the place as a shooting gallery to kill US forces and destabilize what we were trying to build. Time will tell, and history will record who the fools were (or are).
 
It occurs to me that you are simply running a monologue here. Care to answer any of the posed questions instead of bringing up even more horrible and one-sided analysis?
 
Big Media accuses the military of fighting the last war.

Seems to me I could accuse Big Media of reporting the last war.

One radical Shi'ite cleric does not constitute all Shi'ites.

The goober has been trouble since day one.

The US screwed up by bypassing Fallujah during combat actions. Those responsible for the carnage of Iraq were the very ones spared the brunt of S combat power.

Some raving intellect in the administration ok'd re-arming the militia because "we didn't have good security" and the people were screaming to tone the situation down.

The US decided to play patty-cake with the cleric and not thump him from the beginning even though the US knew he was trouble.

A few days before the "uprising" a warrant for his arrest was issued by Iraqi authority for a murder. Really convenient !

Next week begins holy week festivities where agitation can be amplified.

Yea, just like Viet Nam. Yea, we're losing control. Yea, all is lost!

What needs to be done is question the WH and pentagon about a whole series of bad decision beginning to bite back at the same time.

The war on Islamofascist terrormongers makes one thing very clear to me: You see a problem, you deal with it on the spot because unresloved problems tend to bite back much sooner than later.
 
The Tet comparison is a good one. I was struck by the comparison when I listened to ABC radio news report that a helicopter gunship just killed forty worshippers in a mosque. They ignored that these folks were shooting at our guys. This really made me mad and brought the memories of Tet back. It appears to me that some in the media will do anything to work against the country that the live in, but have no loyalty to..

It will be George Bush's fault should this be Tet. He trys to silently lead the country. Where is George Bush?
 
I said it first here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75374

I think it's like Tet in that it's calculated to affect domestic politics, it has no chance of succeeding militarily and we are going to be able to break the back of the resistance as they come out and fight, giving up the advantages they had with sniping and IED attacks. It's like Tet in that the mainstream press is playing right into the Islamic radicals hands with their handwringing defeatism.

I would be willing to bet our commanders on the ground are happy that they are finally coming out to fight. The ones we don't kill outright we'll capture, and they will give us the intelligence we'll need to root out the remainder.

What's happening is a good thing and Iraq will be stable much sooner after this is over.

Jeff
 
Oh, I agree entirely that this particular operation in Fallujah has some clear similarities to Tet. And much of what's going on in Iraq seems to be (mis)represented by the media in the same manner as Tet. But overall, I do not like the comparison of our war in Iraq with the Vietnam War.
 
BBC: The Sky is Falling = Tet (Walter and His Buddies)

"World press despair over Iraq


Newspapers throughout the world reflect anguish and uncertainty over the situation in Iraq one year after the toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime and in the wake of the growing violence and kidnapping of foreigners.

One of the leading US dailies pleads for clarity over the coalition's mission in Iraq, while an Israeli commentator sees parallels with his country's presence in Lebanon, which ended ignominiously.

Some Japanese papers believe that hostage-takers must never be appeased, despite the kidnapping of three of their nationals.


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What we need desperately in Iraq is a clear mission, a believable strategy for success, a morally viable exit plan and international involvement.

The New York Times - US


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The array of challenges the United States now faces in Iraq seems to have emerged almost overnight but is actually the accumulation of mistakes, miscalculations and missed opportunities since Saddam Hussein's government collapsed a year ago.

Iraq specialists quoted in The Washington Post - US


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We can never give in to the threats of hostage-takers.

Sankei Shimbun - Japan


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We can never succumb to this despicable threat. We must deal with it with a firm attitude.

Yomiuri Shimbun - Japan


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The United States has no options now that it has been proved that its political plan to propagate democracy has failed. The US plan has therefore reached its end, because US culture is a culture of war which the world does not need. Peace is humanity's only option.

Ukaz - Saudi Arabia


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The resemblance between our invasion of Lebanon and America's invasion of Iraq is amazing. We wanted to create a new order in Lebanon; they wanted to create a new order in Iraq. Within a short time, in both cases, the Shia had woken up and the invading armies became targets of attack. We pulled out without achieving a thing and Bush is still there, mired in a sea of blood from which no good will come. If I were him, I'd send Saddam Hussein back to Iraq - he would know how to sort this mess out in no time.

Commentator in Haaretz - Israel


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A year later, and Iraq, loyal to its brutal tradition, has sunk in rivers of blood, bitterness, hatred and paranoia. Who still remembers President Bush's vision of regional democracy that would begin in Baghdad and Ramallah and spread to the other Arab countries?

Commentator in Yediot Aharonot - Israel


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The Iraqis have discovered that the freedom the Americans introduced means humiliation, enslavement and the usurpation of Arab resources so that America can grow richer by starving and subduing the people.

Commentator in Kul Al-Arab - Israeli Arab


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Yes, Saddam Hussein's regime was toppled, but Iraqis have discovered that one regime was replaced with one that is much worse, and that the American occupier and his allies are much worse than Saddam.

Al-Sinnarah - Israeli Arab


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Even if Iraq is not the US military's 'second Vietnam', it is still a frightening quagmire... anti-US sentiment in Iraq has reached a critical point, which is likely to give rise to a nationwide anti-occupation situation... America's self-invented 'liberator' image has collapsed just as the statue of Saddam did a year ago.

People's Daily - China


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George Bush has forced the leaders of the Arab world to fear not the fate of Saddam Hussein, but a large-scale Shia uprising and a civil war capable of spilling beyond the borders of Iraq... [The situation provides] a chance for Moscow's voice to be heeded by Washington... the opinion of Russia and its partners in the anti-war camp should be taken into account.

Commentators in Nezavisimaya Gazeta - Russia


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For power to be handed to the Iraqis in June, it must now first be taken from them. The resistance is growing because the Iraqis don't want to live under occupation. And no amount of military force will make them feel otherwise.

Krasnaya Zvezda - Russia


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With the insurgencies becoming more frequent and violent, the 'coalition of the willing' is proving to be a 'coalition of the wavering'... A year after the fall of Saddam Hussein, the coalition no longer controls much in Iraq, which is starting to look like Afghanistan at the time of the Soviet occupation.

Liberation - France


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The Americans have failed to re-establish security for property and people throughout the country, and security is the minimum service that any population expects of the state. Without security, freedom will always remain an empty word in Iraq.

Le Figaro - France


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Spain has to make an urgent reassessment of its military presence in Iraq. One part of the Plus Ultra Brigade has become isolated in Najaf and other places. Spanish troops did not go there to fight or come under siege from a population which rejects them, but to help in reconstruction.

El Pais - Spain


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The situation in Iraq is getting increasingly explosive. Shia and Sunni rebels are uniting their forces... a clear challenge to the occupying forces, pushing the conflict towards a new, unpredictable situation. The war in Iraq is copying, in other ways, the worst characteristics of other conflicts. As in Chechnya, the first kidnappings of foreigners have emerged.

ABC - Spain


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The pictures of the dead and injured are as striking as those of the abducted foreigners. But we must not forget this: during Saddam's terror there were no cameras to capture the images of the dead, the tortured and the mutilated... Nobody can really want the Americans to hand the country over to the Iraqis and come home. The upshot would be unimaginable, bloody chaos, worse than anything that we are currently having to watch.

Commentary in Bild-Zeitung - Germany


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Schroeder did his country a service by not sending Germany to the front line in Iraq in the alleged war against terror.. So that there is no misunderstanding: it is important for Germany to be friends with the Americans. But for this very reason, it could also be important not to be friends with George W Bush.

Commentary in Bild am Sonntag - Germany


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The invasion of Iraq is still suffering from the error that existed at its birth: There is no clear formula for how the country can live in peace. Prophesies that Iraq would be ungovernable seem now to be coming true.

Commentary in Sueddeutsche Zeitung - Germany


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They won the war. But... have lost the peace in Iraq. The worst thing is that each day takes the country even further away from the vision that allegedly brought the "coalition of the willing" into the country.

Commentary in Berliner Zeitung - Germany


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The US-led coalition has lost the peace in Iraq - if it ever existed and was not just self-delusion. The second war - following the first, which began a year ago and seemed to have ended with the overthrow of Saddam Hussein - has only just begun.

Commentator in Frankfurter Rundschau


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The peace was lost from day one when Baghdad was taken over by looters, robbers and murderers.

Commentary in Der Standard - Austria"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3617889.stm
 
ending result will be the same

The end result for Iraq is going to be the same as Tet. America will eventually have to withdraw from Iraq because winning a battlefield victory is not the same as governing a country.

The cultural traditions of Iraq are not the same as America or Vietnam. In that part of the world, people are ruled by kings, emirs, grand ayatollahs or whatever the title may be. There is no place for a "governing council" or a democratically elected government. People respect and expect a single strong ruler to tell them what to do, read the history books; especially the pending wars of nations like Parthia and Rome.

The US can stay in Iraq but there will be very little interaction between the US military and the Iraqi government. The US military, I'm guessing, is going to have to withdraw to isolated bases and leave Iraqis to their own devices, eventually a new strong man will emerge. That is the only practical way to stop the killing of American soldiers. The US can manage Iraq but it can't shape it's government. That is best left to Iraqis.

The longer America tries to bend the Iraqis to it's will, the harder they are going to resist.
 
I would be willing to bet our commanders on the ground are happy that they are finally coming out to fight. The ones we don't kill outright we'll capture, and they will give us the intelligence we'll need to root out the remainder.
The foolishness of this thought is proven in (among other places) Northern Ireland. We are fighting Al Qaeda in Iraq as well as local insurgents. It is theoretically possible to "root out" a self contained group, but the Brititsh failed to do it in NI over a period of 30 years. It is not easy to do, because they choose the time and place of the fighting.

But Iraq is totally unlike that in the respect that Iraq is not an island, so AQ fighters are continuously being recruited and trained and brought into Iraq to fight there. The simple sounding act of Z"rooting out the remainder" will prove to be virtually impossible, until and unless we are able to get the Arab states on our side where these people are recruited, trained and financed. Considering the present foreign policy, we will never see it in our lifetimes.
 
bountyhunter:

The simple sounding act of Z"rooting out the remainder" will prove to be virtually impossible, until and unless we are able to get the Arab states on our side where these people are recruited, trained and financed. Considering the present foreign policy, we will never see it in our lifetimes.

What foreign policy would allow for success with regards to fighting the growth of these violent fundamentalist?
 
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