Angel Shamaya Jailed in Michigan on Gun Charge

[Big Gay Al]

Test case? Who said ANYTHING about a test case??? What happened to Angel could happen to ANYONE on this forum. All you need is a girlfriend, ex-girlfriend, wife, ex-wife, friend, or ex-friend who thinks you've done them wrong, who knows you own firearms, and has a desire to see you in deep do-do.

And it doesn't matter if you're the kindest, gentlest person on this planet. If you get a complaint against you in that manner, don't be surprised if SWAT comes knocking on your door!

 

[countertop]

However, he broke the law, and should suffer the consequences. If a court rules the law unconstitutional then he won, but if not then he has to pay the piper.

but if this was some sort of "test case stunt" then Mr Shamaya just sent the cause of gun ownership back a decade in Michigan.

It was neither.

Did I say it smelled of malice? Police dont just kick down your door to look for contraband unless someone has it in for you.

Yes, you are 100% correct - and this grand conspiracy has nothing (from what I have learned) to do with his RKBA activism (so please shut the conspiracy talk down).

Not a test case, a case of someone else's idea of revenge, or something along those lines.

That is 100% consistent with what I have been told as well. (I've worked with him in the past, though I don't know if I know him well enough to really send a letter in)

Because of the nature of the case, its not really something anyone should be discussing online, but a previous posters synopses hit on one of the underlying relationship problems that led to the current situation.

This is a situation that could befall anyone - no matter how carefully you obeyed the law - because in certain circumstances the police will ALWAYS default to a set of assumptions.

Remember, simple arrests and allegations DO NOT EQUAL guilt. Sometimes there is more to it than meets the eye

 

[Herself]

So, keep us posted on his legal defense fund and how to contribute, willya? Nice letters of support are fine but last time I looked, lawyers had to eat the same as mere mortals -- and so did their clients.

--Herself

 

[AZRickD]

if this man wasn't somethign of a celebrity, most of us on this board wouldn't bother with such niceties,

Most members of this board don't post. So what?

There have been many instances of people on this board activating on behalf of perfect strangers who were in violation of SOCIALIST-ANTI-GUN-LAWS. Some we won. Some we lost.

Let me say that I am glad that many at THR understand the concept of Individuals Rights and Liberty. As for the others (so-called Libertarians -- I say L.I.N.O -- and gunnies -- I say "golfers with guns"), if you ever get a chance to serve on a jury hearing a gun-rights-infringement case, do us all (me, Angel, et al) a favor and call in sick that day.

I am surprised at the zeal and/or energy some work to eat their own young.

Rick

 

[Zedicus]

Update: from Angel himsellf on KBA.com

Comment by: Angel Shamaya (3/4/2006)
"not even a hint about what this is all about."

Need rest first. "What you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." Patience, please? Just spent too much time in mini hell. OK?

"...but now I know that he is a convicted felon..."

Who said I am a convicted felon? Where? (Not!)

More later. Need sleep. Much is happening. If justice exists in Michigan, I shall prevail. This legal battle was brought to my doorstep, literally. I didn't go looking for this. But I will have my say in court before it's done. Vindictive, dishonest, disturbed people risked having me killed by local machinegunners in Kevlar who looked like part of the ground assault team at Waco. If that makes you happy, don't help me.

--AS

Comment by: Angel Shamaya (3/5/2006)
"The only way this makes sense is that Mr. Shamaya has some people who know what he has in his house and do not like him so they ratted him out, and the police issued a warrant based on the rat."

Correct. The mother of my son and her family decided to sic their hometown police on me because she was mad at me and because she can't handle her emotions (and because she is a convincing liar and actress/drama queen). She has threatened for years to "take your guns away" and decided to attack.

I came here to be near my son, whom I love with all my heart, even though she still will not allow my name on his birth certificate. It's a sad, ugly situation.

BTW, at my arraignment, I entered not guilty pleas to all 5 charges.

--AS

Mind explaining Again how anyone Deserves this hell?

 

[Thain]

Hey, I was just workign on the facts I had at my dispossal. If this was a malicous call - which I have no reason to doubt at this point - the Mr. Shamaya has my full support.

I am an Oakland County resident, and will be happy to sit in the gallery and lend support if it coems to trial.

However, I am a skeptic by nature, and before I had the exact charges I did what I normally do... stayed skeptical.

Sorry if my support for the laws of Michigan offended anyone; But I stand by what I said: Michigan's laws aren't perfect, but they are Constitutional under present case law. Dura lex, sed lex.

 

[Jeff White]

A domsetic dispute

Sounds like people should be venting their anger at the mother of Angel's child. It looks like she's used the system to to fight a domestic dispute for her.

Let me tell you, that kind of thing is very common. Women aren't the only parties guilty of it. The accusations fly from both sides in custody/visitation disputes. I had a guy who called my department three Saturday nights in a row requesting a welfare check on his kids who were in the custody of his ex-wife. There was always an alleged wild party with a lot of drugs going on at the house when he called. All the complaints were unfounded. Yet everyone of them had to be checked out. I stopped it when I promised to arrest the father for filing a false police report the next time he sent us down there on an unfounded complaint.

The police and the court system are often dragged into custody disputes, sometimes with the collusion of the lawyers involved.

We don't know what Angel's ex told the police, so it's entirely possible that she led them to believe that a massive show of force was necessary to safely resolve the situation. Looking at the thinly masked calls for violent revolution made by some of Angel's supporters in this thread, I would imagine that she had all the ammunition she needed to make the police believe there would be a violent confrontation over his guns.

Custody and visitation disputes can get to be nasty business. It's not just gun ownership that they make an issue out of. Drug abuse, neglect, child abuse and child molestation are all things that are alleged in an attempt to win.

Last Friday night at work, the first complaint I handled was from a woman who wanted her ex's car stopped when he picked the kids up for weekend visitation, because she had word that he took them out of their child restraint seats as soon as he drove out of sight. That's exactly how petty these disputes can become.

I know men who don't have long term relationships because of the chances of getting falsely accused of terrible things if the relationship goes sour and ending up in the same type of trouble Angel is in.

Jeff

 

[Gray Peterson]

.......

Ok, this brings up some interesting questions.

WHY did Angel Shamaya get arrested for not registering his firearms? The better question is: Why didn't he register them? It's a simple freaking process, and it's not as if they wanted his name on a list of gun ownership, he'd have to buy private all of the time.

 

[Steam dragon]

He moved to Mi.
He started the paperwork.
Takes time.
Till the paperwork is done, you are in illegal posession.
Nice trap they set, yes?

Kinda like a lot of Il. ex-FOID holders.

 

[Jeff White]

Steam dragon,
Who set the trap? It seems like Angel's ex set him up. If anyone set a trap, she did.

As for Illinois, let's not confuse a bureaucratic screwup (removing the contract employees from the ISP) with deliberate plans to entrap someone. In fact I challenge you to show me one case where someone has been arrested and covnicted for having an expired FOID while this backlog has existed.

Jeff

 

[beerslurpy]

The police and the court system are often dragged into custody disputes, sometimes with the collusion of the lawyers involved.

Yeah, this is a huge problem down here as well, but it stretches far beyond custody disputes. Everyone seems to want the police to watch their kids, wipe their asses and keep their neighbor's lawn pretty. And every time someone calls the cops on some BS thing, they have to come and check it out instead of doing something useful.

I think we have given the cops way too much responsibility as babysitters of society and we also have encouraged (through our wounderful public school system) people to call the government to settle their problems rather than having some sort of rational discourse with whoever is annoying them. Of course it doesnt help that we are so litigous that settling any dispute without the shield of qualified immunity is a surefire path to bankruptcy.

If you asked me a year ago, I would have told you that the problem was that cops had qualified immunity. If you asked me tonight, I would tell you that the problem is that only the cops have it. Honestly, acting in good faith should not expose you to bankruptcy inducing levels of litigation.

 

[AZRickD]

Some here should be ashamed of the assumptions they made and the conclusions they jumped to.

Fight it, Angel. Fight it.

Rick

 

[Zedicus]

Some here should be ashamed of the assumptions they made and the conclusions they jumped to.

+1

Fight it, Angel. Fight it.

x200

 

[Jeff White]

beerslurpy,
We didn't ask to be babysitters. It's a cultural problem. I think it starts in about the third grade. Many people believe that the constitution guarntees happiness, not just the right to pursue it. We even have popular television shows were people who can't get their petty little disagreements heard in real court can take them to a mock court.

Divorce (division of property)/child custody/visitation are the most likely to get you falsely accused of something in order to get revenge. And based on the little information we have, it seems that that is exactly what is involved in this case.

Jeff

 

[Kim]

I see this often as a physician and it makes me want to pull my hair out. Always a woman will have to have her child seen on MONDAY. Why you ask. Well the evil father had them for the week=end and she hates him so she just wants her child checked to make sure no abuse occurred. Or the child now has a runny nose and it is that mans fault. Sometimes I have seen the same woman do this monthy for months. I know she is lying I know she hates her ex and I know she would do the one thing to hurt him the most ----------------hope she could get the court to punish him and never let him see his children again. It is awful for the children. They know even at a very young age something is terribly wrong. No wonder men just give up send the money and say good bye to their children. After awhile it is their best option.

 

[beerslurpy]

We didn't ask to be babysitters. It's a cultural problem.

Oh I know it. I didnt mean to suggest that cops desired things being the way they have become.

The problem is that we have a huge portion of society that builds its livelihood around people being a bunch of immature crybabies, not the least of which is the government and teaching apparatus that perpetuates this mode of thinking. Where will the nanny-state go if there are no babies to watch?

Homeschooling is a huge step in the right direction. Another step is to start discouraging people from using the police for petty crap like this- partly by abolishing petty laws and partly (as you pointed out) by threatening punishment against people who waste police time with their family problems.

 

[fistful]

THR is full of traitors and leftist NAZIs!!

Sgt. Slappy and Steam Dragon, you appear to be new around here, so I suppose you have some reason for misunderstanding people like Preacherman and Jeff White. The rest of you have no excuse, and you all need to read a little closer. You think this thread is an opportunity for dogmatically stating the extent of Second Amendment protection? It's not; it's about one gun-rights activist, and how his arrest can affect the movement. At the beginning of the thread, no one knew what had happened, and they worried he had been reckless. Rest assured the people you're arguing with and complaining about, value the RKBA as much as you do, if not more. They just have better things to do than preach to the choir about this or that law being unconstitutional.

You think these "traitors" don't understand or don't care about constitutional rights. My guess is if they had the opportunity to repeal or re-write every gun law on the books, none of you would find much to complain about.

As for my comments on some people's reading comprehension, this is a good example:

We can talk about inalienable rights all we want. But unless those who control coercive force recognize that they mean what we think they mean, those rights mean nothing. That's why we fight in the legislature and in the court rooms. That's why we become politically involved.

For the functionally illiterate, I will translate:

Words on a page are nice, but only if people will respect them. Before starting an armed revolution, we will try to reform the system.

That's all the man was trying to say. You may not be aware of it, but the American revolutionaries tried to work within the British system for many years before Lexington and Concord, and even then it was more than a year before independence was declared. By the way, much of the local government was anti-British. Can't say we're in that same situation now. If you, Sgt. Slappy (and your name suits you) believe it is time for violent action, just say so and give us your plan.

 

[AZRickD]

I've just gotten off the phone with Angel.

The words that come to minde are, "That G-D B**ch."

There is now a legal defense fund. I'm in for $100.

From Gary of Montana Shooting Sports Association

Dear Friends of Angel,

As you would suspect, Angel is exhausted with anxiety - didn't sleep
well last night, and didn't get much rest the night before on the
concrete bed of the Oakland County jail. We're all hoping he will
get some rest tonight. All of your thoughtful letters are now in
Angel's email in-box, for printing and delivery to his attorney
tomorrow.

Many of you have asked where you can send a contribution to help with
Angel's legal expenses. Thank you!

I have suggested a first-step fundraising process to help defray
Angel's legal expenses. Angel and David agree that this is workable
as a beginning, although we reserve the prerogative to revise the
method in a week or so (maybe to a tax-exempt entity).

Here's what you can do: Send a check for whatever amount you wish,
made payable to MSSA, and put "Angel" in the memo blank. I will
deposit this in our account for the Montana Shooting Sports
Association. I will write MSSA checks against the amount received
for this purpose to Angel's attorney(s) for verified legal expenses.
None (zero%) of the funds donated will be used for any MSSA
administrative or handling fees. For oversight of this, I will be
glad to provide documentation of receipts and disbursements on
Angel's behalf to Angel, David and Nicki. Send any check to my
personal address at:

Gary Marbut
P.O. Box 16106
Missoula, Montana 59808

If you prefer to use credit card and PayPal, there is a PayPal
donation button on the MSSA Website. Mark "Angel" under special
instructions if you use this option.

PLEASE NOTE: MSSA is NOT a tax exempt organization, so your donation
will NOT be tax-deductible. MSSA is deliberately not tax exempt
because that would limit our ability to operate as the pro-gun
junkyard dog of politics (what some call us here in Montana).

BTW, Alan Gottlieb of the Second Amendment Foundation is in Germany
for an international gun rights conference. Until such time as we
can find a more permanent process to handle funds for Angel, MSSA
will fill that void.

Feel free to forward and cross-post this message.

Best wishes,

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com

 

[Thain]

He moved to Mi.
He started the paperwork.
Takes time.
Till the paperwork is done, you are in illegal posession.
Nice trap they set, yes?

Bullcrap... I just purchased a handgun in a private transfer last month, in Oakland County... it took thirty minutes, and that included the initial picking up of the paperwork and driving to get the signature of the previous owner.

Mr. Shamaya could have registed all four guns in the same amoutn of time, as under the statute he would be both seller and buyer. It's a short form (name, address, serial number) and the Oakland County Sheriff's Office is very easy to find.

Not to mention, you have plenty of time before moving to the state, a grace period after moving here, and the law is not a secret. Mr. Shamaya is a professional writer about gun laws, he should know how to read a law book. (Or even plain old packing.org!)

 

[AZRickD]

Thain, you in for $100?

Rick

 

[Jeff White]

Rick said,

The words that come to minde are, "That G-D B**ch."

Should I assume that my guess as to what happened was correct?

$50.00 sent....

Jeff

 

[beerslurpy]

By the way, you clowns who advocate armed insurrection in defense of these rights need to realize that if you cannot succeed in a purely political struggle are not going to succeed at guerilla warfare. The political adeptness required to succeed at guerilla warfare is even greater than that required to succeed at pure political activism. This is because such warfare is inherently political in nature but with the added problems of violence possibly interfering with your message and with people in the movement being in physical danger from the fighting.

Additionally, your effectiveness as a guerilla movement will be determined by your support in the population at large. Do you imagine that a frail political movement will succeed at violence where it failed at politics? This is foolishness.

The time for violence is when a triumphant political movement is suppressed by dirty dealing or force and the institutional safeguards fail to correct things. To win at fighting you need the numbers and political legitimacy that come from already having a political victory in hand. But this doesnt tend to happen in America because most politicians already bend like reeds in the wind and care more about pulling the levers of power than getting deposed because of some irrelevant (to them) issue. Observe the change in congress during the 90s after the AWB. Number of shots fired: zero.

 

[AZRickD]

Jeff asked:

Should I assume that my guess as to what happened was correct?

Welp, correct. Although your mind is not sick enough to truly appreciate the magnitude. Most fathers would have walked away to preserve his sanity, and in this case, his freedom. Angel stuck around. I don't want to get into the details, but I'm not sure I would have been able to put up with the years of oddness and hate that was foisted upon him.

Pray for his son.

Rick

 

[beerslurpy]

Oh yeah, one clarification, it is easy to succeed at blowing things up and hurting people, but it is difficult to use those tools to effectively gain political victories.

Putting all options on the table, how will violence affect the gun rights movement?

Will gun owners blowing up buildings and shooting politicians that disagree with them be good for the movement? Will the public look upon such acts with favor? I dont think anyone would look upon such acts with favor, regardless of the cause.

By the same token, how does the gun rights movement look when the government is persecuting gun owners and playing dirty tricks on law abiding citizens? Or murdering their family members in bloody and unnecessary seiges? How will public opinion turn because of this violence?

The way to win is to slowly build up support in the populace for shooting sports and armed self defense while constantly tripping the antis up with their own malice and incompetence. Waco, Ruby Ridge, the AWB and Katrina were all great victories for the gun rights movement. They provided rallying cries and recruiting material for the political fight over RKBA and although we were harmed by those events, we benefited far more in the long run.

And yes, gun control is GOOD when it tries to grab too much too quickly. The end result is a painful backlash, a stronger gun rights movement and less gun control. Can you imagine if the 34 NFA had gone ahead with its original plan of a handgun ban and people had started resisting or congress had just killed the bill? We might not have any regulation of SBSs or machine guns today.

 

[AZRickD]

Beerslurpy,

Good points, all. But you're a little thread-drifty tonite.

Are you in for $100?

Rick