Ann Coulter on 9/11

[idd]

Is this what you would expect Clinton to do if he would have been in office? Get real.

What would Clinton do. Not really an interesting question for me.

I'm interested in how well the system worked on 911.

7:58 am American Airlines Flight 11 departs Logan Airport, Boston.
8:12 am American Airlines flight attendant Madeline Sweeney calls flight services manager back at Logan to report that two of her colleagues had been stabbed and a passenger had had his throat cut by Middle Eastern men. "This flight has been hijacked," she concluded.
8:40 am FCC notifies NORAD that a hi-jacking was in progress.
8:45 am American Airlines Flight 11 out of Boston, Massachusetts, crashes into the north tower of the World Trade Center, tearing a gaping hole in the building and setting it afire.
8:46 am Air Force responds to NORAD with a "scramble order."
8:52 am The pilot gets the first F-15 aloft, flies at Mach .09 from Otis air base in Cape Cod to New York City 17 minutes later.
9:03 am A second hijacked airliner, United Airlines Flight 175 from Boston, crashes into the south tower of the World Trade Center and explodes. Both buildings are burning.

Chronology here.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

So, if your point is that we have a leviathan government that does not react quickly to the events that may or may not have been expected and events that stunned an entire country, and the world, then I guess you are right. It shows that we rely on humans.

 

[idd]

So, if your point is ...

Well, it's not.

I'll repeat. "I'm interested in how well the system worked on 911."

I'm interested in what experts in aviation safety, defense, NORAD and FAA procedures think about how well the system worked that day. Also in how well the system worked for the months and yes, years, before 9/11. Undoubtedly some subscribers to THR have experience in this area and offer intelligent opinions about the subject. Something other than "it's Tweedledum's fault" and "no, it's Tweedledee's fault."

 

[M1911Owner]

I'll repeat. "I'm interested in how well the system worked on 911."

Given your timeline, above, it looks like the system worked pretty well on 9/11. Seven minutes (8:45 to 8:52) between the time a hijacked plane crashed into the WTC until there was an F-15 in the air. Can't really do a whole lot better than that. Sounds like some people at the Air Force were doing a top-notch job!

 

[papercut]

Ann Coulter is hot....

And she has such a way with words....

 

[papercut]

Oh, and on the timeline posted by idd....

Sounds like a pretty darn fast response. We *used* to have entire Air Force bases on 10 or 15 minute response, but a large percentage of that was cut back or eliminated during the cutbacks under Clinton (don't argue--the cutbacks mostly occurred during his administration, even if inital planning was done a year or two before he took office).

 

[Il Duce]

Papercut, I agree completely...

...on both posts.

It's amazing how quickly people turn on Ann as compared to her opponents across the aisle, such as Franken, Moore, and Carville.

idd said:

When Ann Coulter expressed her wish that Timothy McVeigh had murdered the entire staff of the New York Times, she put herself beyond the pale of civilized discourse.

Since when has civilized discourse been a part of political discussion?

I think many people don't quite get her sense of humor, too. I think she's hilarious myself, but that's just my opinion...I could be wrong.

Il Duce

 

[M1911Owner]

When Ann Coulter expressed her wish that Timothy McVeigh had murdered the entire staff of the New York Times, she put herself beyond the pale of civilized discourse.

hyperbole (hì-pûr´be-lê) noun

A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.

I guess our ultra-literate liberal intellectuals missed that day in English class when they discussed the literary devices used in civilized discourse.

 

[Diggler]

I think it's really petty to sit around and complain about a President who calmly brought the reading session with the kids to a quick close rather than run around in a chinese fire drill like some here obviously would have preferred to have seen.

Of course, if their choice for President in 2000 would have won, he would have been up there in a second, ordering the EPA out to do environmental impact studies on how many greenhouse emissions were put out by the burning buildings and jet fuel.

Me thinks some people are getting testy, because they look at Kerry and say, "Jeez, that's the BEST we could do??"

 

[HBK]

Excellent points, Diggler. The left is just....well...the left.

 

[Airedale1]

by w4rma.........A false statment is a statement that is false

Sort of like calling President Bush a .......................

by w4rma.........miserable failure

Maybe I don't hold men to as lofty a standard as w4rma does, but I sure wouldn't mind trading resumes with W.

President George W. Bush: Received a Bachelors Degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard Business School. He served as an F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National Guard. He began his career in the oil and gas business in Midland in 1975 and worked in the energy industry until 1986.

He was elected Governor on November 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote. In a historic re-election victory, he became the first Texas Governor to be elected to consecutive four-year terms on November 3, 1998 winning 68.6 percent of the vote.

In 1998 Governor Bush won 49 percent of the Hispanic vote, 27 percent of the African-American vote, 27 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of women. He won more Texas counties, 240 of 254, than any modern Republican other that Richard Nixon in 1972 and is the first Republican gubernatorial candidate to win the heavily Hispanic and Democratic border counties of El Paso, Cameron and Hidalgo.

The next time you hear someone say that President Bush "stole the election" or he was "selected not elected" remember this. As a candidate, nobody and I mean nobody knows you better than the voters of your home state. In the Presidential election President Bush easily won his.

As for Al Gore the voters of his home state in that same race overwhelmingly rejected him and he was a sitting Vice President.

A woman by the name of Ann Richards once underestimated Mr. Bush, lots of people do.

 

[w4rma]

PAOLO721, I don't underestimate Bush, politically. He is like the Pied Piper in both his leadership and results, imho.

M1911Owner, where is the exaggeration?

When Ann Coulter expressed her wish that Timothy McVeigh had murdered the entire staff of the New York Times, she put herself beyond the pale of civilized discourse.

Are you trying to say that she hopes a few of the NY Times staff would escape from the building?
… Is your tape recorder running? Turn it on! I got something to say."

Then she said: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building."

I told her to be careful.

"You’re right, after 9/11 I shouldn’t say that," she said, spotting a cab and grabbing it.
…
http://www.observer.com/pages/story.asp?ID=6258

 

[Michigander]

You know, I was watching live television coverage of the "accident" on September 11th, 2001. I remember it quite distinctly. I was in awe at one of the most horrific "accidental" air disasters in human history.

Then I see this other aircraft come into view, and I'm thinking to myself, "why in the heck are they flying so close, what kind of sick gawkers are these people to try to get a better view..." Of course I had no idea that the plane was getting closer for a more sinister motive than "gawking."

Once the second plane hit, I, you, them, us, and everyone in the world knew it was an attack. But not until then, did I know, or even suspect. At this point, I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, so to speak, and of course it did, in Washington DC and Pennsylvania. I really thought it was going to be much worse.

So, in light of my own personal experience, I would say that GW Bush's reaction was understandable. And I'm no big fan of GWB, as some of you know.

However, there is this kind of information that I cannot seem to make fit into a logical and reasonable explaination of why we, the US, could not stop such an attack:

A Case for Comparison

An example of how the air defense network normally responds to domestic emergencies is illustrated by the well-reported 1999 case of Payne Stewart's Lear jet. When the golfer's jet failed to respond to air traffic controller communications, F-16 interceptors were quickly dispatched. According to an Air Force timeline, a series of military planes provided an emergency escort to Payne's stricken Learjet starting about 20 minutes after contact with his plane was lost.

This contrasts with the long periods of time apparently hijacked planes roamed the skies of the Northeast on September 11th without any interceptions. 83 minutes elapsed between the time that Flight 11 veered off course and the Pentagon was hit, and 112 minutes elapsed between the time that contact was lost with Flight 11 and Flight 93 crashed. According to the official story, not a single fighter was scrambled in time to intercept any of the four jetliners. At least 28 air stations were easily within distance to protect New York City and Washington DC. None of them did. Note that, if anything, intercept times for the four jetliners should have been far shorter than for Payne Stewart's jet:

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Michigander,

The war on drugs is the reason. Payne Stewarts plane arrived from the south (The Gulf or Mexico). SOP to interdict planes that are incommunicado.

That we had SOP for drug interdiction and not suicide pilots is a question worth answering. I bet we have one now.

 

[a random jerk]

M1911Owner, after reading your posts, I am absolutely appalled. Honestly, how could you not know that the President of the United States is equipped with a high-tech brain implant that allows him psychic knowledge of everything currently happening on the Earth? I mean, damn -- I thought everybody knew about that one by now.

 

[HBK]

Honestly, w4mra, why the hell do you come here? It seems like your primary motivation is just to piss people off or get on their nerves. If there is a different motivation for all the drivel you post, I would love to know what it is.

 

[Diamondback]

ANN COULTER = HOWARD STERN.........two sides of the SAME coin.
SHOCK JOCKS one and all !

 

[John G]

Are those pics of Bush sitting in a classroom supposed to prove something? Like he didn't care, or couldn't be bothered to react? If thats what's being suggested, then that suggestion is weak. No president, no matter what you may think of him, would be apathetic in the face of such reality.

I suppose a more exciting image would be of GW pulling on a nomex mask, dropping the slide on his HK, and strapping on a jetpack en route to the SHIELD hellicarrier.

 

[Airedale1]

by John G..........Are those pics of Bush sitting in a classroom supposed to prove something? Like he didn't care, or couldn't be bothered to react? If thats what's being suggested, then that suggestion is weak.

John G you are right on the money with that observation.

I might add too, that the very same folks who would make an assertion that it showed W to be apathetic, would be the very same folks making the pathetic assertion that he was grandstanding by landing on the deck of an aircraft carrier in a pilot's flight suit. Lloyds of London considers the active deck of an aircraft carrier to be the most dangerous work enviorment on the planet, bar none and the flight suit was not an option.

That was not the act of an apathetic Commander in Chief. It was the act of a great leader, leading by example.

You just cannot win with these people. In their eyes W can do nothing right. He will do at least one thing right though when he wins his second term in November. Of course, the left will contest that also.

 

[Indepbias]

Re: Ann Coulter

I'll tell you ... Ann Coulter provides analysis on certain issues from a far too bias point of view. To state that ONLY Clinton did nothnig is laughable. The fact of the matter is that the American public would not be so quick to support millitary action against foreign threats for 5-6 american deaths.
Think not? Think about it? Three thousand died on 9/11 and yet people are still clamoring around saying that the war should not have been started.

Come on ... to say that Clinton should have gone ballistic on terrorists in 1995 is ridiculous. The far right at the time would be tar and feathering him, like the Dems are doing Bush right now.

I understand that people pledge their allegiance to a party and spend their time playing damage control for that party's action ... but I implore all Americans to think ...

But what Ann Coulter does well, is spark debate ... and without conversation ... no issue can be solved.

JG

 

[Moparmike]

Think not? Think about it? Three thousand died on 9/11 and yet people are still clamoring around saying that the war should not have been started.

No, they say that the war in Iraq should not have been started. I dare you to find one reputable pundit that said that we shouldnt have gone to Afghanistan. I doubt you will find one.

 

[Don Gwinn]

No one reputable. The only one I can think of is that idiot Ted Rall. He's kind of a leftist Ann Coulter without the humor.

He once wrote a column all about how Americans should study the Afghan model of tolerance and diversity because the Afghan people love each other and treat each other with respect (when they're not slaughtering each other based on ancient tribal grudges) and Americans are such bigots and so full of hatred of all other races and creeds.