I'm also a rookie to THR... first thread! I have a hinged S&W .38 Double Action, 5 shot revolver, nickel plated. The markings are as follows: Top of barrel... Smith & Wesson Springfield MASS USA. Patent dates are May 11, 1880 Jan 9, 1882 April 9, 1889. Left side of barrel says S & W .38 CTG. Serial number on the butt of the handle is 1569. Inscribed in very small print inside the serial number is 46@141. The same marking (46@141) appears on the back of the cylinder. The grips are black and look like hard plastic or rubber. It's a double action, but also functions perfectly well as a single action. A dear friend of mine had a substantial gun collection and left this gun to me. I know nothing about the history of the gun, so I've been searching web sites for months and haven't found an exact match yet. PLEASE, someone help me!!
Another cry for ID help - S&W .38
- Thread starter Cagey Tee
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SDC
Member
Going by the patent dates, this should be a Double Action First Model, but that's a very early serial number (they only made about 4000 of this version before they went to the Second Model).
After spending all evening taking pics, then finally figuring out how to load them on my pc, I can't seem to get them to upload to the site. :banghead: I'm trying to attach them and the download starts, but before it finishes uploading, this dial-up conx must time out and the upload fails. Any ideas??
gunmn74
Member
This may help you post pics but I am no expert.
http://http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=302811
The guys you need to talk to are Old Fuff or XavierBreath and they
will want pictures. They really know their S&Ws.
You might also try the S&W forum.
http://http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=302811
The guys you need to talk to are Old Fuff or XavierBreath and they
will want pictures. They really know their S&Ws.
You might also try the S&W forum.
SDC
Member
It's actually a Double Action Fourth Model, built from 1895 to 1909; the "1569" is some sort of "issue number" meaning it was purchased and issued as part of a lot, probably to a police organization of some sort. The REAL serial number is the series of small numbers underneath the 1569, and it's repeated a couple of other spots on the revolver (cylinder, barrel, sideplate, etc.)
Back to my original questions..... Can someone tell me what Model/Issue I have, when it was manufactured and it's value? I have not shot or cleaned the gun, for fear of doing damage. I'm a real stickler for keeping my weapons clean and my patience is running thin on this one. I read somewhere that you can damage the nickel plating with today's solvents. Is that true?
SDC
Member
The serial number range; your s/n reads "469147" (you must be reading the "9" as an ampersand (@)), and the s/n range for the DA 4th Model is between 322701 and 539000.
bill larry
Member
Your gun looks broken. Broken top latch?
You wanna sell it for parts?
You wanna sell it for parts?
there is no top latch, but it doesn't look like any parts are broken or missing. That's one of the reasons I stated earlier that I have never seen a picture of the exact gun i have. I've arranged to have the gun inspected by a local S&W collector. if he confirms the model and that the gun is not functional, i will sell it for parts.
herohog
Member
Looks like the whole gun was sanded... i understand that happened a lot when the plating started to flake on these old fellows. I too wonder about the latch... if it isn't busted/missing parts, how does it latch/release?
XavierBreath
Member
Cagey Tee,
The middle revolver in the above photo is a Smith & Wesson .38 Double Action. Looking at the latch in your forth photo, I can assure you your top latch is broken. Compare it to the ones pictured above. The top latch is an individually fitted part, and they seldom swap from one gun to the next with great success.
I agree with SDC on the specifics of your revolver. It's a Smith & Wesson .38 Double Action 4th Model. Your grips appear to be replacements, but it would take a hands on examination to confirm that. Value of your revolver in it's sanded state would be around $150.
The back of the barrel latch is broken off. A replacement might be found at www.e-gunparts.com
Bore cleaning solvents designed to remove copper-nickel fouling from barrels can attack what's left of the nickel plating. You can safely use mineral spirits to clean off dirt and grime. When you are done wax, rather then oil or grease the surfaces. Johnson’s Paste Wax or a good quality paste wax sold for automobiles is recommended.
Bore cleaning solvents designed to remove copper-nickel fouling from barrels can attack what's left of the nickel plating. You can safely use mineral spirits to clean off dirt and grime. When you are done wax, rather then oil or grease the surfaces. Johnson’s Paste Wax or a good quality paste wax sold for automobiles is recommended.
Looking at some great pics from Doc Savage and the explanations from Old Fuff and XavierBreath, I can now see how the latch functioned.... when it was on the gun
Thanks for the help!!!
XavierBreath - So on the subject of sanding.... was the original finish a flat gray color like the middle picture above? And is the gun in the lower picture an example of one that has been sanded?
Thanks for the help!!! XavierBreath - So on the subject of sanding.... was the original finish a flat gray color like the middle picture above? And is the gun in the lower picture an example of one that has been sanded?
XavierBreath
Member
The original finish was most likely a high polish nickel. These revolvers also came in blue, but not as commonly.
The finish on mine is about gone, and they are just patina metal. I'm one of the oddballs who would rather have no finish than a re-finish.
The lower revolver is simply worn nickel, an example of about 50% original finish. The upper two were originally nickel as well, but are now less than 10% original finish.
The finish on mine is about gone, and they are just patina metal. I'm one of the oddballs who would rather have no finish than a re-finish.
The lower revolver is simply worn nickel, an example of about 50% original finish. The upper two were originally nickel as well, but are now less than 10% original finish.
I'm definitely in the oddball category too. As mentioned in the beginning of this thread, the gun was a gift and serves as a fond memory of a friend. My preference is to repair the gun and maintain it, not restore/destroy it. The pics I posted don't do the finish justice. The frame is really in good shape and appear to be as XavierBreath suggests, a high polish nickel finish. I know my friend's great grandfather was a fishing boat Captain, sailing out of Rhode Island. My guess is that the shipping company much have issued the pistol to him, and stamped the "issue number" on it. Thanks again for all your help. I will follow your recommendations for cleaning and maintaining and see if I can find a replacement latch. I don't intend to shoot the gun, but will preserve it and display it proudly in my own collection. Thanks again for the benefit of your knowledge, expertise and time!
If you deside to keep the revolver I suggest that you send the Smith & Wesson company a check for $30.00, copies of the photographs you posted, and a description from the information you learned in this thread. In turn their company historian, Roy G. Jinks, well send you an official letter containing whatever their original records might show. This would likely include conformation of the caliber, barrel length and finish - along with the date it was shipped from the factory, and to what distributor, dealer, police department, company, or whatever.
Additional details will be found at www.smith-wesson.com
Additional details will be found at www.smith-wesson.com
Thanks Old Fuff. I had looked at that site in my earlier research and I think that's where I saw a link to download a 'factory letter' form. I guess I could have saved you guys a lot of frustration over my stupidity if I had done that in the first place. Again, I appreciate all the Sr Members who displayed uncommon patience with me and provided the info I desired.
No so. Mr. Jinks would have likely presumed, as we first did, they you had a "parts gun" assembled outside of the factory, and the the "91" barrel was incorrect for the double-action model. The truth of the matter only came out when you posted pictures showing that the cylinder and barrel were indeed serial numbered to the frame at the factory, and were original to the gun. This is important because it is at worst unusual, and may even be unique.
Relatively little research has been done on Smith & Wesson's double-action top-break revolvers because it is only recently that collector interest has surfaced. It is through incidents like this that we all learn. In reviewing several standard reference books I find no mention of "91" marked barrels on .38 Double Action model revolvers.
I found a great site to download a S&W Factory Letter. The forms are available as word documents or pdf files. Here's the link:
http://www.theswca.org/
http://www.theswca.org/
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