this shouldn't happen at all.your first gun of any kind should come from someone who wants to help/sale to you.after all we were all first time buyers once,even the dealer!my first came from a pawnshop,I bet I played with every handgun there,and I still didn't buy until my third trip,he treated me like a king each time.if there are other dealers around try them until you find one who is happy to help.this can give you a better knowledge of guns then anyone online
Another "help the newbie" thread
- Thread starter matt-s
- Start date
- Status
XavierBreath
Member
matt-s,
Welcome to the world of firearms, and welcome to The High Road. You will find some top notch advice here, and we try mightly to get the cream to rise to the top. I hope you stay and benefit from The High Road, as many others have. In your price range you will find many handguns that meet your criteria. I am uncertain of the restrictions that may be on handgun sales in New Jersey, or whether certain models are not allowed for sale there. If that is the case, please post a link to a list so we can give you better educated responses.
In the meantime, I encourage you to go to your local gunstore and inquire about gun and/or shooting clubs in your area. By joining such an organization, you should be able to get your hands on some guns belonging to other members to try a few rounds. At the very least, you should get some well formed opinions specific to your area. Folks new to shooting seldom join these clubs, but they can be a wealth of information and fun to boot. (I see Glenn & Ken have already advised this.....
)
Gun stores can be notoriously apathetic if not down right hostile towards those they see as 'just lookers". Don't let it get you down. Look and ask questions anyway. Explain you would like to give them your business once you can buy. Show you have the cash.
Realize that most shooters transition through different makes and models of handguns over the years. The chance of you finding just the right gun the first time around is not good statistically. Still, you have some pretty firm criteria. Unfortunately, once you start shooting, your criteria may change. That's the conundrum.
You say you plan on getting a .22 pistol to augment your marksmanship training. That is wise. I'll dwell on it a bit first. A handgun without the applied marksmanship is a wasteful noisemaker. A used Ruger MKII usually sells for just under $200 in good shape, and they are bulletproof. The Ruger MKIII just isn't the same pistol. For this training tool, I highly recommend the former. A Browning Buckmark or used Ruger 22/45 brings up a close second. Ammo is cheap, and these pistols are more accurate than most shooters ever become. They are also about as durable as a bulldozer.
Now, on to the centerfires.........9mm is an excellent choice. Ammo cost would be roughly half that of 45ACP, allowing you to shoot more and build marksmanship faster. I confess that I own more 1911s than I should, but my 9mm Colt Commander gets fed the most. You say you want a range gun.......Usually that means adjustable sights, long sight radius (or at least not short), and a full size grip. These type pistols are made for target work.
When you say you are a big fan of design / manufacturing / engineering, and form following function, that tells me a lot. Chances are, a 1911 is your pistol. Heck, you are already thinking that way! So, I'm going to recommend a Springfield Loaded in 9mm with adjustable sights, stainless. Item number PI9134LP. See what your local dealer can get you one for. This pistol should sell for pretty close to your price range, be a breeze to shoot, easy on the wallet to feed, and Springfield offers a lifetime warranty. Most 1911s of decent quality like a Springfield have no issues until someone starts to "improve" them. Swap the grips if you like, and put in a GI recoil set-up, but leave the rest alone and be happy.
Do not rule out revolvers as another gun. Smith & Wesson made some fantastic target revolvers in .38 special that are accurate as all get out. You have the choice of shooting single or double action, the ammo is relatively inexpensive, and you tend to go through slower. You have an impressive range of barrel lengths (and therefore sight radii) to chose from, and fixed or adjustable sights. If a man can shoot a revolver well in double action, he can shoot any handgun well. Best of all, you can often buy extremely nice Smith & Wesson revolvers on the used market for $200-$300.
Now.......Let's get this thread back on track. New member comes here, asks well thought out, direct questions, and next thing you know there is virtual blood on the walls........
We can do better than that.
Welcome to the world of firearms, and welcome to The High Road. You will find some top notch advice here, and we try mightly to get the cream to rise to the top. I hope you stay and benefit from The High Road, as many others have. In your price range you will find many handguns that meet your criteria. I am uncertain of the restrictions that may be on handgun sales in New Jersey, or whether certain models are not allowed for sale there. If that is the case, please post a link to a list so we can give you better educated responses.
In the meantime, I encourage you to go to your local gunstore and inquire about gun and/or shooting clubs in your area. By joining such an organization, you should be able to get your hands on some guns belonging to other members to try a few rounds. At the very least, you should get some well formed opinions specific to your area. Folks new to shooting seldom join these clubs, but they can be a wealth of information and fun to boot. (I see Glenn & Ken have already advised this.....
)Gun stores can be notoriously apathetic if not down right hostile towards those they see as 'just lookers". Don't let it get you down. Look and ask questions anyway. Explain you would like to give them your business once you can buy. Show you have the cash.
Realize that most shooters transition through different makes and models of handguns over the years. The chance of you finding just the right gun the first time around is not good statistically. Still, you have some pretty firm criteria. Unfortunately, once you start shooting, your criteria may change. That's the conundrum.
You say you plan on getting a .22 pistol to augment your marksmanship training. That is wise. I'll dwell on it a bit first. A handgun without the applied marksmanship is a wasteful noisemaker. A used Ruger MKII usually sells for just under $200 in good shape, and they are bulletproof. The Ruger MKIII just isn't the same pistol. For this training tool, I highly recommend the former. A Browning Buckmark or used Ruger 22/45 brings up a close second. Ammo is cheap, and these pistols are more accurate than most shooters ever become. They are also about as durable as a bulldozer.
Now, on to the centerfires.........9mm is an excellent choice. Ammo cost would be roughly half that of 45ACP, allowing you to shoot more and build marksmanship faster. I confess that I own more 1911s than I should, but my 9mm Colt Commander gets fed the most. You say you want a range gun.......Usually that means adjustable sights, long sight radius (or at least not short), and a full size grip. These type pistols are made for target work.
When you say you are a big fan of design / manufacturing / engineering, and form following function, that tells me a lot. Chances are, a 1911 is your pistol. Heck, you are already thinking that way! So, I'm going to recommend a Springfield Loaded in 9mm with adjustable sights, stainless. Item number PI9134LP. See what your local dealer can get you one for. This pistol should sell for pretty close to your price range, be a breeze to shoot, easy on the wallet to feed, and Springfield offers a lifetime warranty. Most 1911s of decent quality like a Springfield have no issues until someone starts to "improve" them. Swap the grips if you like, and put in a GI recoil set-up, but leave the rest alone and be happy.
Do not rule out revolvers as another gun. Smith & Wesson made some fantastic target revolvers in .38 special that are accurate as all get out. You have the choice of shooting single or double action, the ammo is relatively inexpensive, and you tend to go through slower. You have an impressive range of barrel lengths (and therefore sight radii) to chose from, and fixed or adjustable sights. If a man can shoot a revolver well in double action, he can shoot any handgun well. Best of all, you can often buy extremely nice Smith & Wesson revolvers on the used market for $200-$300.
Now.......Let's get this thread back on track. New member comes here, asks well thought out, direct questions, and next thing you know there is virtual blood on the walls........
We can do better than that.Whatever you get, MAKE SURE that you can get a .22LR conversion for whatever first centerfire pistol you buy! Your shooting will be handicapped if you buy a Sig, XD, or any H&K. Not because of the quality as they're all excellent - but because you can't shoot cheaply!
Trust me. Look at this thread, and confine your choices to those pistols that are on it.
I bought a Sig 226 as my first pistol, and regretted it because I couldn't shoot it cheaply.
Trust me. Look at this thread, and confine your choices to those pistols that are on it.
I bought a Sig 226 as my first pistol, and regretted it because I couldn't shoot it cheaply.
Excellent. I can't wait to get back to the shop soon "armed" with more info (and confidence I am headed in the right direction).
Three follow-ups on the .22 option:
1) If you get a center fire pistol that supports a conversion kit, is it still worth it to get something like a Ruger Mark II?
2) Does the Mark II still lock-back when the magazine is empty, and is the magazine release in the more traditional location? I can't recall if that was an improvement from I to II, or II to III
3) I thought the difference in Mark II and III was the safety features . . . did those cause the gun to take a step back, or are there other changes that were made that contribute to this?
Thanks!
Three follow-ups on the .22 option:
1) If you get a center fire pistol that supports a conversion kit, is it still worth it to get something like a Ruger Mark II?
2) Does the Mark II still lock-back when the magazine is empty, and is the magazine release in the more traditional location? I can't recall if that was an improvement from I to II, or II to III
3) I thought the difference in Mark II and III was the safety features . . . did those cause the gun to take a step back, or are there other changes that were made that contribute to this?
Thanks!
XavierBreath
Member
I think so. A dedicated .22 pistol will keep you from having to swap out slides and barrels, and a used Ruger MKII will cost less than the conversion kit for another pistol. The used Ruger MKII will keep it's market value as long as you take care of it. It may even increase in value over the years.
The bolt on the Ruger MKII does lock back after the mag is empty. The MKI does not. The magazine release on the MKII is on the butt of the gun. The Ruger 22/45 magazine release is in the traditional location beside the triggerguard. The Ruger MKIII has the magazine release beside the triggerguard as well. This is not really an issue unless you plan on performing speed reloads with a .22 pistol.
The loaded chamber indicator and magazine safety of the MKIII are often seen as dubious improvements to please attorneys rather than improve the safety of the firearm. As a result, the pistol becomes more complicated with small pieces with no real improvement in safety for those who follow the Four Rules. The real safety is between your ears, not on the gun. Of course, you also have the button safety on the MKII if it makes you feel more comfortable.
ReadyontheRight
Member
I am not sure if this fits with NJ rules, but what about gettting a .22 first? And then choosing your bigger handgun after you have 1000 rounds through your Ruger or Browning. This will get you some range time and I bet other shooters will let you try out multiple pistols.
I personally like having different guns instead of conversion kits. Time is tight enough at the range.
I agree that you sound like you would enjoy a 1911.
With a .22 and a 1911 in .45, you can shoot NRA Bullseye. It's a lot of fun and you do not need to be a great shooter to enjoy it.
You might want to attend some competitive matches and watch. Not just NRA Bullseye, but all the various defensive matches as well. Some might even have a clinic to draw new shooters. Great place to meet real shooters and many will have gear for sale or have club postings.
Oh - And I recommend you find a new gunshop. No need to deal with folks who don't want to deal with you.
I personally like having different guns instead of conversion kits. Time is tight enough at the range.
I agree that you sound like you would enjoy a 1911.
With a .22 and a 1911 in .45, you can shoot NRA Bullseye. It's a lot of fun and you do not need to be a great shooter to enjoy it.
You might want to attend some competitive matches and watch. Not just NRA Bullseye, but all the various defensive matches as well. Some might even have a clinic to draw new shooters. Great place to meet real shooters and many will have gear for sale or have club postings.
Oh - And I recommend you find a new gunshop. No need to deal with folks who don't want to deal with you.
ReadyontheRight
Member
And welcome to THR. I think you'll find great advice here and a lot of folks who truly want to help new shooters.
No offense at all meant to those recommending a Glock or other modern 9mm, but from your description, it sounds to me that you might appreciate an all-steel pistol to start. You have no need for concealed carry and you appreciate great engineering. The engineering behind the plastic pistols is awesome, but there is just something about metal and steel that a plastic gun cannot duplicate.
Regardless, get a gun and get out and shoot. You can always buy another one if you find something better.
Good Luck!
No offense at all meant to those recommending a Glock or other modern 9mm, but from your description, it sounds to me that you might appreciate an all-steel pistol to start. You have no need for concealed carry and you appreciate great engineering. The engineering behind the plastic pistols is awesome, but there is just something about metal and steel that a plastic gun cannot duplicate.
Regardless, get a gun and get out and shoot. You can always buy another one if you find something better.
Good Luck!
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Matt, make some new friends.
Go find a local gun club you like and join it. See what regular activities they have going on during the month and show up for those events. Sure, you might only be able to sit there and have a cup of coffee the first couple visits until you can find yourself able to participate. But go there with the plan to make some new friends. Once you get that new gun, you'll have a place to shoot it. There's nothing worse than owning a new gun but not have a dependable range to shoot it on.
And, I have a hunch these new friends you make might be more amenable than your current ones to providing you with the references you need for your next gun. Just a hunch . . .
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