Another Loadmaster question ??

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unohu69

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Hello, Im new here, I think this is a great forum with good advice.

I have decided on purchasing a new Loadmaster. My question concerns which one to get.
I will be reloading .223/5.56, 45acp, 5.7X28 (FN 5-7), 7.62X39, and 308 mostly.
But I am only concerned with the 45, 223, 5.7 right now.

The Loadmaster 45acp kit comes with carbide dies and the auto disk powder measure. And the 223 kit has pace setter dies and the perfect powder measure.
I plan on reloading alot of 223 ammo and would like a carbide die for that size.

so should i just get the 45 acp kit then order x-tra turrets & dies for the 223 and 5.7. and will the auto disk be ok for the 223 or should i get the perfect powder and leave it set up for 223 on that turret.

Im sure the 45 kit comes with large primer feeder right? so ill need a small for the 223, 5.7 shells

And finally what else should i consider mandatory for ordering at the same time, such as breakable parts, etc...

Iv been looking at all the choices for presses and accessories its all fairly confusing:banghead:. Its like listening to the kids downtown argue over which import is better than the other.

Thanks for any input
 
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I'm not sure I can answer all those questions...

However, I have a couple of pointers (which you often won't get in reloading manuals.)

1. Don't confuse carbide pistol dies with carbide rifle dies. Carbide pistol dies permit skipping the messy lube step when reloading metallic cartridges because the point of contact is a short carbide ring...very little friction. Carbide rifle dies (Dillon) are for volume reloaders who are worried about wearing out their dies (think law enforcement agencies) and still require lubrication because of the full-length contact. Very expensive, and they don't do what you think they will do.

2. 5.7x28 is a very bad cartridge to learn on. This is a cartridge with very little room for error, as I understand things. Start with the .45 ACP, then progress to .223 and get familiar with bottleneck cartridge reloading, and then take on the 5.7x28 last.

I'm assuming you're reloading for an AR-15, so you'll need a full-length resizing die (which the Pacesetter dies include.)

The Perfect Powder Measure has a micrometer adjustment, which (IMO) is a lot better than messing with the disks of the Auto Disk measure.

Finally, you might check Lee's Classic Turret Press. This has a better record of "less trouble" than the Lee progressive presses, and is a simpler press to set up and use.

Here's a link to some "mixed reviews" on Loadmasters. People either love them or hate them -

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280324

And another (from this forum) -

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=211703
 
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Here is something else to consider. I have a loadmonster and love it first off. Sayign that it is not really a great press to learn on unless you are very mechanically inclined and familiar with the process already. It has been known to be quirky and at times a PITA to setup & get running. On the plus side once you get it up and running and learn it, it is a great machine and runs like a top. Look at http://www.loadmastervideos.com/ and watch the videos & look in the forums for setup advice. It is a good press and will last a long time. mine has loaded 60000 plus hassle free although I don't prime on the press usually and that is where most folks seem to have their problems.
 
Thank for the info on the Lee dies. I just thought carbide would be best overall, and I do plan on reloading boatloads of 223 ammo. I hate going to buy the stuff Ammo just seems way overpriced now a days.

I do understand the loadmaster is going to require a little more "tweaking" to get it to work smoothly.
I have considered the classic turret press but I think ill be happier with the loadmaster in the long run.
I also like the 5 hole as opposed to the 4 hole turret.

Im going to reload 223 ammo based on the fact that I will enjoy just as a hobby, I like the idea of sitting around at night loading my ammo that I shot earlier that day, and I will be shooting a better quality ammo for about the same as cheap stuff.

Im hoping to save a little cash on the 45acp ammo by loading my own, and the 5.7, while I have to work into it, should save money also. As well as being able to load a better round than currently available.
The FN 5.7 is only available in one configuration ( a 45 grain with the plastic tip) from FN basically and the good stuff is only available through auction and wicked expensive for hollow points (and we dont even need to discuss the armor piercing stuff).

I am very mechanically inclined, and the type of person who will check stuff 5 times before im confident its right on, then ill check it again. So the 5.7 doesnt scare me. All tho I will be "practicing" with the 223 and 45 first. I still need to build up a sufficient supply of shells for the 5.7.

So will the perfect powder measure work with the smaller pistol cartridges? I do like the ability to dial in my charge as opposed to "figuring it out". I will probably get a second powder measure for pistol ammo any way.

I dont think I need to produce more than 300 rounds an HR It really isnt about the speed so much as just the hobby. I can easily shoot through 500-1000 rounds any time we go out to the pit so figure I will be reloading 1000 rounds every 2 weeks. and that could be per caliber. So as you can see I believe I will save money.

I havent ruled out the classic turret, but I do think im going to want a progressive anyway.

I still need to buy a few other things such as case tumbler/sifter set, case prepping etc...

Also I saw on a video I think it was Liberty4ever on Youtube, he was doing a "swage" to fix the primer pocket on military ammo. I was wondering what I need for dies or whatever to do that. Can it be done on a turret press or should that go in a single stage. I could set up a spare turret and disable the indexing option.

i wrote this on my way to work at 6am, I stoped by cabelas on the way hoome but they did not have a loadmaster, just a pro 1000, or a hornady lock n load ap (for $420:what:)

I really like the LnL but the price is just to much. And it doesnt even come with one caliber to get you started at least.
 
So will the perfect powder measure work with the smaller pistol cartridges?
Click to expand...

Well, it depends on the load you're trying to use. The Lee information said it worked "from 2gr to 100gr", and that it was primarily designed for reloading rifle cartridges. Typical loads for .45ACP are around 4 or 5gr minimum (depending on powder), so it should be OK for that one.

I don't have any Lee equipment, but I've noticed that not all of their gear is compatible with all of their presses. You apparently have to do some homework to figure this out -- it isn't spelled out in bold type up front.

For example, while the Lee Perfect Powder Measure can be adapted to dispense in a press, it won't work with a Powder Thru Expander die. You'll need a separate die for belling pistol cases.

I was wondering what I need for dies or whatever to do that.
Click to expand...

For the volume you're talking about, you should look at Dillon's primer pocket swager. This is a volume tool. Like a lot of reloading equipment, you can buy inexpensive stuff, kick yourself later, and wind up buying a well-designed tool that will last forever. There are a lot of other tools that will swage primer pockets, but they bend case rims and are incredibly slow to use.

Good luck with your endeavors.
 
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I've been using a Loadmaster since they were introduced, which I think is at least 20+ years ago. The online videos are great, and if you follow their written and/or video instructions carefully and in sequence, you should have little difficulty getting the press running. Specific example: when setting up the case feeder, where they tell you to use STP on a particular surface USE STP - not oil, not grease, not graphite, or anything else. For me, the case feeder has been the fussiest part to keep running reliably over the years, in part because there were times when I DIDN'T follow their instructions exactly.

I only use the press in full progressive mode for pistol cartridges, and in that context have been VERY satisfied over the years with the disk powder measures with ball and small flake powders. (I have NOT had good luck with the Perfect model - I've had one for years, get it out about every 5 years to try, then take it off and put it away again. YMMV.) I'd recommend you order one of the adjustable charge bars for the disk measures, which gives you a continuously adjustable tool. Although for all but the most demanding loading environments, I've found that the disks work extremely well, and at the smallest volumes their round cavities are more consistent than the football-shaped cavity you get with the adjustable bar.

For really tiny charges the Micro Disk works well, again with fine grain powders. Don't know if your 45 loads will need to go that small - I need it for light target loads in 38 Special cases. (For the 223 you probably can get enough powder into the case with the Double Disk kit for the disk powder measure, but for 308 you'll have to go to the Perfect measure or a bench mounted measure.) Finally, be aware that there are different sizes (heights) of case pushers - if you order the press set up for 45 ACP it will come with the appropriate (short) pusher but you might find the press is more reliable with a taller pusher for the 5.7 and will certainly want the taller one for rifle rounds.

For rifle loads, I tend to use the press progressively to deprime, size and reprime the cases, then I take the cases out of the press and put 'em in a loading block for powder charging from a bench mounted measure. I then run the charged cases through the bullet seating and crimping stages progressively again. This really is quite easy to do with the way the case keepers work around the edge of the shell plate - just swing 'em out of the way on the stages where you want to remove or replace a case, and push 'em back when you're done with the process.

In addition to whatever comes with the kit you buy, you will want the other size primer system ($19 at Midway.) And do get the case collator - the tray that goes on top of the tubes for the case feeder. Makes filling the tubes a matter of a few seconds. (BTW, the tubes are only for pistol cartridges IIRC. I think even 223 is too long to work properly through them, so you just put rifle cases in front of the case pusher one at a time before each stroke.)

The "mechanical ability" that even Lee will tell you makes for a happier Loadmaster user is really the ability to visualize what's going on with the machine as it cycles. Actually replacing/adjusting parts on the press is pretty simple once you identify what has to be done.

Do plan on keeping some spare parts on hand. You WILL smash the primer sliders from time to time - they're under $2 at Midway, so keep some of each size on hand. I keep a spare complete primer system in each size on hand too, just because it's sometimes easier to put a new one in on a Sunday night than figure out what a problem may be. I have a few of the pull back chains for the powder measure on hand, but am still using the original that came with the press.

For multiple calibers I recommend having a turret set up separately (including powder measure) for each caliber, so you just swap turret and shell plate, and change the primer system if needed. (It takes longer to figure out how to put the unused primer system back in its box than it does to replace the primer system in the press.)
 
Thank guys for the great info. I have been on loadmastervideos since i got home from work.

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.
I'm just gonna jump in and get the .223 kit, since that is the caliber i really need the most for now. Ill run with the perfect powder measure for now, and buy the autodisk when I get my 45 turret, dies and shell plate. Then when I get proficient with that Ill do the 5.7

Since I dont have alot of operating cash now, Im just going to order my kit then next check get some more stuff. I can see this being another money pit hobby. good thing im already divorced. lol

in case anybody else is wondering lee factorysales.com has them for $205 right now cheapest place on the net.... $222.14 shipped ( just clicked confirm :) )
Natchez shooters supply was going to be 236 and some change.
 
1. factorysales in not affiliated with Lee. According to google maps company address traces to a regular residence home.

2. factorysales does not have a way to tell you whether the product is in stock or no. In my understanding, they just have walk-in access to Lee inventory stock on wholesale prices, and can not tell you upfront on availability of the product.

3. factorysales charges your CC right after you place the order, but may send your the order weeks or even months later. I had to rollback their charge through my CC company after they faled to deliver product a few months after ordering, and reported several times afterward that they have "refunded" the charge, which did not appear on my CC statement in the next billing cycle.

I had good experience with kempfgunshop.com. My loadmaster is from there. While the loadmaster there costs by $5 more, you will get the press for the money guaranteed, not just promises.
 
helg : thank for the info. I had no idea factory sales wasnt part of Lee. I got a confirmation e-mail saying my order has been shipped (yes my card was charged already), so i guess ill give it a few days and check the tracking ( I was provided a UPS tracking #).

I have also orders a cmmg .22 conversion kit, and a 100 round drum for my ar-15 from http://www.botachtactical.com I have an email saying that order was shipped, but havent been charged for it yet.

I will post again with an update on customer service lol...
 
I do not like the lee perfect powder measure - i had much better results with the lee disks, and I use them on a dillon 650.

I got rid of the loadmaster a while ago - I cant say I miss it. It did pretty good for 9mm and .40 - but was disappointed with the 223 loading. When I bought it I didnt know 223 wouldn't feed right in the case feeding system - its to tall and skinny to work, and it falls over onto the floor. Priming cases was next to impossible, yes it will work for a little while, then you have to stop and fuss with it. There is no feel of the primer seating its hard to notice a missed/crushed primer, you dont know you missed one until you find it in your bin, and realize that the last dozen are oozing powder all over the place. The indexing was what finally pushed me over the "its not worth it threshold" I got sick and tired of constantly messing with it - yes it would run right for a while then it would slowly get out of tune. I liked parts of the press - The case feeder system = cheap and effective for 9mm, and I had to mod it to make the 40 run great.

I ended up going with the dillion 650, I found a used one for a good price and so far I have loaded about 2K .223 and it has been "interesting" it was set up for .45 so I had to change everything over to .223 - being new on the blue press, there were a lot of tinkering before I got here running good. I have to be honest - with all the praise Dillon receives I kind of expected less initial trouble (which to be fair - was me learning a new press) but the way pro-Dillon people rave about it, I figured it must be magic.

Once I got the hang of things it was like a light switch - round after round, hundreds rolled off the press. Stopping only to fill primer tubes and powder - and the funny thing happened - nothing changed, it just ran and ran and ran. This was a new experience for me - this is what the Dillonites must be talking about.... the case feeder, indexing, powder dump, OAL, crimp all worked very well, and for the first time in years I could prime on the press.
 
I'm a long-time Lee user, and I have used a Load-Master since about a year after they came out. Right now I load on a Lee Turret, updated with the 4-die kit and the safety prime, and on the Load-Master.

FWIW, dmazur has made good observations about the Lee gear, as have the others. Like the others, I would recommend you start with .45ACP and learn to use the press without changing the primer size and become very familiar with it that way. IMO the primer system remains the weak link of this press, and the learning curve here is steep until you have the primer depth adjustment set properly with all turret / caliber changeouts. IOW, no matter primer size or turret (caliber) setup, the priming depth does not need to be changed. That tweak is critical for easy changeout without primer problems. Tweaking setups for consistency is the tedious part of learning curve.

Make sure you order extra primer sliders in both sizes, and I would even get an extra set of primer feed arm pieces. Notice that Large and Small primers have different parts.

When I got the Load-Master out again, as I returned to reloading in 2008, I had it factory-tuned first, and then went to work getting it to operate reliably. I found that the best die setup for me was a five-die operation for Pistol reloading. (I don't bother to load rifle--.223--on it yet; I'm still learning that.) That is, I have a Universal decapper in station one, and a sizing die without the decapper in station two, over the priming station. That setup aligns the case properly for priming, and that has solved a lot of problems for me.

About your questions--implied or otherwise

1. Definitely get the AutoDisk kit, and upgrade it to the Deluxe / whatever if it doesn't come that way. If the kit doesn't include an Adjustable Charge Bar, get that as well. I would NOT use the Perfect Powder Measure for high-output production, and I do NOT believe it can be set up with a manual pull-back as the Autodisk can.

The AutoDisk can work for .223 reloading with the expanded disk kits. I use an aftermarket adjustable bar that handles H335 just fine.

2. If you do get the Load-Master, do get a SS press to go with it. Yes, the L-M can be used as a SS--but that is not a "natural" way to use it. A SS or (Lee) Turret is far-and-away the best way to do load development, and I do not think that should be attempted by a novice on a progressive. IMO.

3. As you may know, a typical RPH for the Load-Master can vary widely. I use 360-420 rph as my rate, providing I have extra primer trays loaded, components organized, catch bins ready, etc., etc. Most of us Lee Turret users now consider our typical rate to be about 180-200 rph for handgun, and RustyFN calls his .223 production rate about 250-300 hr working with primed cases.

That's it for now, save for agreeing that, yes, use STP; don't try to substitute the slider lubrication.

added on edit: I suspect most of us Lee users find Kempf's to be an excellent resource for Lee, as is Graf's; there are several other stocking dealers. As I updated my gear three years ago, I settled in on Graf's.

Jim H.
 
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For those who rave about seating primers on a Dillon (or any other) press on the upstroke to get the "feel" of the seating, I think it's interesting that on Brian Enos' site where he talks about the differences between the Dillon presses (which he sells in great quantity, apparently), his final comment on the big cahuna of the Dillon line, the 1050, is
The beauty of seating the primer on the downstroke (only on the 1050) has to be experienced to be fully appreciated. http://www.brianenos.com/pages/dillon.html
Click to expand...

It sounds an awful lot like the way a Loadmaster works. :rolleyes:
 
My LNL primes on the down stroke. It's the only thing going on at that moment and I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
I dont know about the 1050 but my 650 primes when the shell plate is at the lowest position, when nothing else is going on. You actually push forward just a little bit. The loadmaster primes on the top of the stroke (shell plate is at the highest point) when your sizing, depriming, powder dumping, bullet setting, crimping - its hard to feel a primer miss-seating or when a primer is missed.
 
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The Dillon 1050 primes on the downstroke OF THE HANDLE, unlike any other Dillon press (or any other progressive I'm aware of, EXCEPT the Loadmaster.) That's what Brian Enos is marveling at in the writeup, and that was the point of my post.
 
The Dillon 1050 primes on the downstroke OF THE HANDLE
Click to expand...
That's true. The 1050 lowers the dies onto a stationary case rather than raising the case via ram into a stationary die. The net effect is the same as many of us try to avoid. Priming while cold forming brass, depriming, sizing, seaing, crimping, etc.. all in one pull of the lever takes all "feel" out of the primer seating operation.
Definitely not for me.
 
Well The Loadmaster showed up bout 20 min ago. So I guess The factorysales worked out pretty good. I still need to go through the box and check on parts and pieces, but it arrived. So no complaints there.

Ill be back around searching for more info im sure. Thanx For all your input.
 
update.. the stuff from botach showed up today ( cmmg .22 conversion for ar, and 100 round 5.56 drum) , so all is good in my little world...

I would do business with either one of them ( factorysales.com and botachtical.com) again.:D:D:D
 
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