Antique musket poll

[XxWINxX94]

Hey all,
Going antique musket hunting very soon and I need some opinions.
I've got several choices of muskets (that I haven't seen, or know the condition of), I only know an online price and model, and a small, rough picture. If anyone could share some knowledge on any of these models, it would help me out a lot! I'm also interested in a musket more likely to be used by the South during the civil war, but that is a little bit of a strech.

Also, please vote on one you think is more likely to have the best value/collectability, or believe would be a good buy.

If anyone would like the exact info or price to any of these, let me know.

P.S. I do realize these are antiques, can be very rusty/bad looking, and will pay a hefty price. I have no interest in reproductions, (already own one).

P.S.2. These are only the model years, the exact dates vary. If you select "other" please say what other model your thinking about.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

I checked other if you want a CSA era Musket I'd say get an Enfield .58 cal they have 2 or 3 band and use the minnie balls...that's what I'd get. I have an 1863 Remington Zouave .58 accurate as hell ... length shorter than Springfields... ect. Was a Northern made gun.
Are you talkin' Antique or Antique Replicas?

 

[XxWINxX94]

Alright, If I see an Enfield I'll be sure to check it out. I am talking real, authentic antiques. The ones from the 1800's.

 

[Al LaVodka]

The '42 was not only launched during the War with Mexico, and was hated as the first main caplock, but was prevalent at the start of the CW. In fact, a guy by the name of Jefferson Davis started moving arms to southern arsenals and sending armory officers on long trips to get them out of the way to do it before the war. Remember the South also captured Harper's Ferry armory but any '42 is representative. Conditions are rough but prices can be quite good at this time especially as compared to Mississipi rifles and '55 rifle muskets. Springfield '61/'63's are plentiful, and ended up being used by the South as "supplied" by the North but that took time to ramp-up for the rebels. Tower Enfields? Yes, also used by both sides in very significant numbers and are affordably available if you are patient -- it seems to me you could pretty easily find a shooter Enfield!
Al

 

[hawkeye74]

All of the models you listed were likely used to some degree by the South, with the 1863 Springfield the least likely to have Southern use. All of the others were in the South at arsenals and captured early in the war.

My favorite would be the US Model 1841. Many call this the Mississippi Rifle and variations of this model were used by both sides during the war. This one was used heavily by the South early in the war. It has a shorter barrel length and is very accurate. Available in both 54 and 58 caliber in original guns.

Don't be surprised if you find MANY very good shape originals. Many CW weapons were bought and never issued. Cost is based mainly on number made and collectability.

There were hundreds of thousands of the 1861's made. Also of the 1863. Price on a very fine one of these should not exceed $4500. Shootable, very good examples of the 1861/63 can be had for $1500-3000.

The Model 1855 rifle musket was actually only in full production about 3-4 years and was made at both Springfield and Harper's Fery Arsenals. The Model 1855 rifle was only made at Harper's Ferry, not Springfield. Since fewer of these were made, they tend to be more collectible. Brass Banded HF 55 rifles are the most collectible of the 1855 model variations. These in all original form will run from $3000. to $20,000.

Model 1842, comes in both Smoothbore and Rifled versions. Many available in very good to fine condition, you just need to look. $1500 -3500 should get you one in good shape.

The 1816 was originally a flintlock. Many, likely most, were converted to percussion. This cause for concern because the Flint version is most collectible. As such, many are being re-converted from percussion back to Flint. These are not as valuable as the others. These were smoothbore originally but many were rifled also at time of conversion to percussion. Values as low as $1200. to $5000.

 

[XxWINxX94]

Ok, Thanks for the info everyone. I'm leaning towards a Harpers Ferry, cause I like the name, I already have a replica Springfield, and the Harpers Ferry arsenal was in or captured by the south I think. I'm looking at something at or under $1500, but I think if I see something that really sticks out, I'm prepared to spend $1600.

Here is what I'm looking at: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=21_24_51&sort=3a&&page=1

I have them sorted from the cheapest to the most expensive. There are quite a few in the $1600 and lower category, so I am torn between a few.

Let me know what you all think.

 

[hawkeye74]

The 1842 HF is a pretty good looking gun for the money. As described, it would likely not be a shootable barrel. However, there are available drop in barrels from some very good barrel makers that will let you purchase one and stay within your budget. One thing should be noted. The picture does not show the proper ramrod. It has the button ramrod more common on the 1816. To see the difference look at the 1842 Springfields. The original ram rod is about a $150.-250. item. This is another reason the price is low.

All of the 1816 have cone in barrel conversions. This was the cheapest and least sturdy method of conversion. I don't like these because my interest is in shooting them as well as collecting.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Also check out Gunbroker.com(Antique rifles)... and AuctionArms.com, GunsAmerica.com.
Dixie has a lot a nice ones ...I'd like one a these(with hunting also in mind) looks alot like the Mississippi rifle that I'd like in .58 cal.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_24_51&products_id=12940

 

[XxWINxX94]

hawkeye74,
Assuming your talking about the 1842 HF for $795:
I like it too, it looks like it's in alright condition, but if your right, it has some missing parts and an unoriginal ramrod. As far as shootability goes, this one would not be able to shoot you think?

For the 1816's,
So they're pretty much all NOT shootable, because of the poor barrel conversions?

 

[hawkeye74]

The 1816's might be shootable, but that type conversion, cone in barrel, is known for failures. Flintlocks have much stronger main springs than caplocks. The conversion did not lighten the springs and as such the force is such that Anything more than occasional use, the cones are driven down into the chamber area. Combine this with poor cleaning and ordinary corrosion from BP, you see how they failed often. That is why I don't like them as a shooter. As such, yes, I don't consider them shootable, just collectable.

Yes I am refering to the HF 1842 for $795. It sounds as if this gun is mostly sound. The barrel would be my main concern if I wanted to shoot it.

The parts can be replaced, it just that some are very hard to come by in original parts. Ramrods are one of the hardest to find replacements for in original. There are many good reproduction replacements out there that will work, just not original parts. I looked for 6 years for a front barrel band for the 42 that I built from original parts and new wood.

You cannot tell if a barrel is shootable with live fire until you have it looked at closely by a gun smith or someone very experienced in antique guns. The 1842 HF barrel needs to be examined from Muzzle to breech for any problems.

A bore light will be need to examine the bore properly. This can give you a pretty fair look at the barrels condition. If it is pitted heavily, I would be cautious about shooting it. The bore light will not let you get a good look at the breech area which is actually critical in knowing the barrels condition. This is where experience comes in. There are ways to "feel" the amount of corrosion/wear/pitting in the breech if you know how. It is hard to explain to a novice and better shown. If the breech is solid, look for bulges/dings in the barrel externally.

If you choose, you can leave the barrel as is and get a drop in barrel or you can have the barrel re-lined. With the shape this gun is in, re-lining will not hurt the value much. Either would still be within the $1500 you have set as your budget. Re-lining might actually help the value. (If you knew where to sell them, the parts alone are about worth the asking price.)

With the 42HF as is, the wood can be restored to a large degree with appropriate measures. It will take a lot of TLC but that stock can be slowly brought back. Don't get in a rush to bring it back. No sand paper, just 0000 or 00000 steel wool, with a good natural cleaning solution. I make my own but suggest you might want to use Balistol. Murphy's Oil Soap is also good to clean off years of grime build up. Final step will involve sealing with linseed oil. If you want to try it yourself, DGW has books that will help you along.

Be sure and pull the lock and look at the internals. These things were built very sturdy so parts can be broken and the lock still function normally. Look to see if there are any cracks before you decide to buy. Particular attention should be paid to the tumbler, sear, screws and main spring

 

[XxWINxX94]

Alright, I think the 1816s are out of the question then, I at least want to shoot this thing once or twice before it goes on a wall mount. Knowing that the conversion method was not good, and it being 150+ years old, I'd be a little nervous about the shootability. I will be sure to remove, or ask the folks at DGW, to remove the lockplate for me. I will probably bring some sort of borelight or flashlight and examine the barrel to the best of my ability. I'll be sure to watch out for exterior barrel damage as well.

For the 1842HF, it says the "original" trumpet ramrod is with it, but if that one is originally for the 1816, I'm not sure I'm interested. It also says there are a few broken parts with the bands and swivels. I'm not going to count this one out yet because of the low price.

There is also an 1842 Springfield that they claim is in "Very good" condition, however is a few $100 more. However it says it has "oxidation." http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_24_51&products_id=15500

There are a few for over $1500, that all look good and the descriptions are music to my ears, but I really just have to see them in person. I'm really looking for something with a very legible date, and a shootable barrel/bore. Like you said, the wood can be fixed up and parts can be found.

 

[hawkeye74]

Best thing to do is just make a judgment call when you see this one first hand. All the major parts seem to be there. It looks like it will clean up well. Just make sure you check the bore and internals on the lock. Bad pitting frequently means bad breech. If the bore is smooth, then it looks like a good price.

BYW, Lodgewood in Whitewater is great for original parts on antique guns.

 

[XxWINxX94]

Got the gun, check for the "I got it...." thread. Pictures are up too!