P53 Enfield vs 1861 Springfield?

[Panzerschwein]

Hello everyone! I am about to get a rifled musket of the Civil War era. I'm having one heck of a time picking between the Pattern 1853 Enfield 3-band musket and the Model 1861 Springfield rifle. I would be buying ones made by Pedersoli, as I here they make the best and most authentic reproductions out there.

I like the Enfield a lot. It was used on both sides of the war quite a bit, and I find it a bit more "interesting" than the plainer looking yet very sleek Model 1861. But, during the war, I've read that most troops preferred the Springfield... so I'm not so sure!

If you had to pick, which one of these would you want, and why?

Springfield M1861 (Pedersoli)



P53 Enfield 3-Band (Pedersoli)

 

[Texas Moon]

1861

The butt stock on the Enfield has very little drop. The 1861 points and aims better for me.
1861 comes apart easier for cleaning.

 

[Panzerschwein]

1861

The butt stock on the Enfield has very little drop. The 1861 points and aims better for me.
1861 comes apart easier for cleaning.

Really? I would love to hear about the easier disassembly. I really have had no luck finding how these guns are disassembled for cleaning. Since I would make this a regular shooter, having one that's easier to clean is significant to me.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Enfield. Longer range. In independent tests, both the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia and the Confederate Army of Tennessee found that the Enfield was the most accurate of the common arms.

 

[MEHavey]

Again, I counsel the OP to pick up an Enfield to see if he can easily
get down on the stock and easily get the sights aligned.

As to accuracy....
in `82 I changed from a Tower Enfield to the original `63 Colt Special
Model of the `61 Springfield and never looked back.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Unfortunately, there is no place I know of where I can shoulder both of these guns. I don't know anyone who owns a rifle musket, much less both.

I did handle a Pedersoli M1861 at Cabelas one time, and remember liking it.

 

[joe4702]

I have both, but the Enfield is the 23" barreled musketoon version, which apparently Cabelas no longer carries.

Field strip is essentially the same for both.
From memory...
- Remove ramrod
- Remove barrel bands (Enfield=screws, Springfield=spring retainers)
- Remove tang screw
- Remove barrel from stock
- To remove lock, it's one screw (I think).
That's about it for normal cleaning.

The trigger group, trigger guard and butt plate are equally simple to remove if desired. I did so when I first got the guns to wax the stock underneath and the underside of the metal.

My prediction is you will end up with both, so get the one that is on sale now, then the other when it goes on sale.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I have both, but the Enfield is the 23" barreled musketoon version, which apparently Cabelas no longer carries.

Field strip is essentially the same for both.
From memory...
- Remove ramrod
- Remove barrel bands (Enfield=screws, Springfield=spring retainers)
- Remove tang screw
- Remove barrel from stock
- To remove lock, it's one screw (I think).
That's about it for normal cleaning.

The trigger group, trigger guard and butt plate are equally simple to remove if desired. I did so when I first got the guns to wax the stock underneath and the underside of the metal.

My prediction is you will end up with both, so get the one that is on sale now, then the other when it goes on sale.

If only it were that easy.

I'll also need to get equipage for casting minies, and accouterments such as cartridge box and cap pouch, with materials for the production of paper cartridges as well.

I'm not particularly able to purchase both rifles so soon, and have been saving for some time to afford but one of them.

 

[vagunmonkey]

Have you considered the P58 2 band? Every bit as fun as the Harper's ferry

 

[Panzerschwein]

I have indeed considered that, but as it turns out, the only reproduction 2-band Enfields available are the 1858 Navy style... of which hardly any were used during the U.S. Civil War.

The 3-Band style is more interesting from a historical standpoint since it was used so very widely on both sides.

 

[vagunmonkey]

I have indeed considered that, but as it turns out, the only reproduction 2-band Enfields available are the 1858 Navy style... of which hardly any were used during the U.S. Civil War.

The 3-Band style is more interesting from a historical standpoint since it was used so very widely on both sides.

There were over 8,000 purchased (Naval P58's) by the Union, and many more purchased by the south....not as many as others, but still a significant arm. As I recall it was the preferred arm of sharpshooters in the south.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I don't have the Enfield but I do have an 1861 Springfield. It is fun to shoot, as accurate as I am with either minie balls or patched round balls, and is not hard to clean. I really like it but that probably doesn't help you make a decision......

 

[joe4702]

If you can only get one, tough decision then.
I'd get the Springfield.
Pedersoli did a really nice job with this one.
The bright finish metal work, complete with US eagle on the lock, is well done and looks great.
The lock plate is thick and heavy.
I don't know if the originals were that way, but I was impressed when I removed it.
Its a big hunk of metal and just has a quality heft and feel to it.

The Enfield is nice and fun to shoot, but the blue and brass seems kind of ordinary compared to the Springer.

I haven't shot the Springfield yet as I had to order a 60" padded rifle case and longer range rod than I typically use.

Good luck with your decisions.
I'm sure you'll be satisfied with whatever you end up with.

 

[Panzerschwein]

http://issuu.com/csdigest/docs/july_aug_2012_pdf_for_website/18

Starting on page 14 of the link below, the new Pedersoli Enfield seems to have been co-designed with some Civil War reenactors and weapons experts and it appears to be by far the most historically correct version of a reproduction Enfield 3-band rifle ever made.

I'm not sure if the '61 Springfield has the same updates or not, but it's very neat that they really care about the historical accuracy of the P53 Enfield.

 

[RON in PA]

Springfield stock much more ergonomic.

 

[midland man]

I wonder what caliber and twist rates are for these?

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

The Springfield is .58 caliber and has a 1 in 72" twist rate. Dixie Gun Works has it on sale currently.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=9314&osCsid=49cjemoc7inn96iqk6kiit4g31

 

[AlexanderA]

Regarding disassembly, a slight edge goes to the '61 Springfield because it has band springs instead of clamping bands. (The '63 Type 1 Springfield has clamping bands. Thereafter, Springfield went back to band springs.)

The Enfield has a stiffer ramrod that is slotted for a cleaning patch.

Personally, as an erstwhile Civil War reenactor, I like the '55 Springfield best of all. The repros don't have the internal Maynard roll-primer mechanism in the locks, but that can be remedied by gunsmith John Zimmerman (located in Harpers Ferry, WV).

As a side note, all the current Springfield reproductions cannot be confused with the originals, because the reproductions have noticably heavier barrels and stocks. The closest-to-original reproductions were those made by Miroku of Japan, but those haven't been made for many years.

 

[Curator]

I have one of each. The Enfield has better sights and the screw-tightened barrel bands are a plus. The 1861 Springfield has a longer flash channel with a 90 degree bend in it which can cause hang-fire and misfires despite having a "clean-out screw." Both have really long twist rate rifling that barely stabilizes the 1 1/8 oz. minie ball. I have good results with the Lyman 575494, 315 grain minie in both of these rifles as it is shorter. The 2-band Enfield with the 1 in 48" twist is more accurate shooting the heavy slugs and would be my first choice if I could only have one rifled musket. Of the other two, I prefer the P53 Enfield for the reasons listed. The Springfield 1863 solved most of the problems of the 1861 except for the sights and is almost as good as the Enfield.

 

[col.lemat]

Problem solved pick neither the Enfield or the Springfield, get a Confederate Richmond Rifle.

 

[4v50 Gary]

AlexanderA - you mentioned a locksmith who can get the Maynard Tape Prime working, but where do you get the Maynard tape (or do you use red cap paper)?

 

[BlackJack]

I presently own a Chiappa (ArmiSport) 1858 two band and love it. Accurate, 1-48 twist handles .577 minis as well as .58 patched round balls. More accurate with patched balls when I use it for hunting. Have had the Springfield and the three band Enfield by ArmiSport and EuroArms, as well as Zouave rifles and a James River "Mississippi." All were less accurate.

My original interest was the possibility of reenacting, but once I got them and started getting into the guns, my interest in reenacting waned. Considerations for a reenacting gun are mainly: WEIGHT and then reliability with paper powder charges. Rifling is irrelevant to the task and simply complicates cleaning. The Armisports tend to be better as reenactment pieces IMHO because the wood weighs less for some reason.

When I shifted to interest in actual shooting, I investigated the NSSA and started selecting guns for shooting at targets from fixed distances. The Chiappa/Armisport was the clear winner in that category for me. Has enough stock drop for me, very accurate and quick and easy to reload. I've taken it hunting, but mostly use it for plinking and showing off with visitors.

I now have a new disease--flintlocks. Believe me, you don't want to go there unless you win the lottery.

 

[BlackJack]

By the way, I agree with the col. I would get a Richmond rifle now since it's one of the only ones I don't have experience with and would like to get it. I like Armisport products in general although they are not as historically accurate as others, but frankly, none of the modern repros are completely accurate copies because of the different materials and production processes used today. Don't worry about it. It isn't 1861 any more.

And if you want to handle them all, come to Gettysburg. We have shops all over the place with new and used examples, and if you catch me on the right day, I'll take you out to the range and we'll blow some massive holes in paper.

 

[AlexanderA]

AlexanderA - you mentioned a locksmith who can get the Maynard Tape Prime working, but where do you get the Maynard tape (or do you use red cap paper)?

I've never actually used a Maynard tape in my '55. I just have the full, working mechanism for authenticity's sake. I don't like the fake primer door that doesn't even open.

Even the troops in the Civil War used regular caps in their '55's.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks all! Well I had a chance to stop in at a Cabelas today, and they didn't have any rifle muskets on the rack.

They did have some cool Pedersoli long rifles, both percussion and flintlock. I did see a really nice cased Colt Navy (not sure which gen) in the "Gun Library", too rich for my blood though.

I am soaking up all the information I can on these two guns before I make my choice. Thanks for the help everyone!!