Antis believe suing gunmakers will end mass shootings

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Old Dog

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There seems to be quite a logic gap in this line of thinking.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/w...1&cvid=e9a3b2c5437444daa2e510b5645531c6&ei=11
"What we’re trying to do through litigation is just encourage responsible conduct"

-Philip Bangle


Encouraging "responsible conduct" of the gun makers, but no effect on the criminals and mentally ill. Equating how gun makers market their products to the previous failures of the auto manufacturers to ensure "safe products." And bringing up the lawsuits on opioid manufacturers as well.

“Instead of focusing a lot of attention on the criminal shooters or mental health issues this litigation has focused attention on gun manufacturers, in terms of their design decisions, their distribution decisions and their marketing strategies,” Lytton said.

Timothy Lytton, distinguished professor at Georgia State University College of Law and editor of the book Suing the Gun Industry: A Battle at the Crossroads of Gun Control and Mass Torts, said litigation can help to push the issue of gun violence to the front of the public’s minds and also “reframe” the discussion of America’s gun crisis.

Basically, admissions that gun control advocates don't have a plan to address possession and use of firearms by criminals or mentally ill. Just use litigation to keep the "gun violence issue" to "the front of the public's minds" and hopefully put some gun-makers out of business.

The antis are using multi-pronged attacks on gun rights of American citizens; throwing as much poop on the wall as possible to see what sticks. Are we putting forth as much effort to "reframe" the discussion of "America's gun crisis" as the other side? Other than simply countering with quotes of the Founding Fathers and the Bill of Rights are we doing enough to directly rebut and expose the fallacies and bad logic of antis' strategies such as this?
 
Are we putting forth as much effort to "reframe" the discussion of "America's gun crisis" as the other side? Other than simply countering with quotes of the Founding Fathers and the Bill of Rights are we doing enough to directly rebut and expose the fallacies and bad logic of antis' strategies such as this?[/QU

I don't think America has a "gun crisis", we have a people crisis that needs to be addressed.
 
Are we putting forth as much effort to "reframe" the discussion of "America's gun crisis" as the other side? Other than simply countering with quotes of the Founding Fathers and the Bill of Rights are we doing enough to directly rebut and expose the fallacies and bad logic of antis' strategies such as this?
Agreed. If you check other forums and especially YouTube comment sections under videos discussing anything to do with advancing or thwarting attacks on the 2A, "1776 will rise again" and "The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants" and "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!!" are typically the most common sentiments. Hardly constructive although I guess I appreciate the enthusiasm.

I often think it would be nice to have more high profile people like respected and admired celebrities who are pro 2A would come out and say it. As much as I hate it when celebrities and famous people talk, there is no denying how much impact they have on our culture and how much the issues they speak on gain so much traction.....
 
This has nothing to do with reducing mass shootings and they know it. It’s all about attacking guns, period. They want them all, and not to reduce crime or save lives, but to have more control and feel safer telling you how to run your life.

Vote no, vote against politicians who have a history of voting for anti legislation. It’s pretty simple.
 
It has nothing to do with ending mass shootings ... you have to look at the deeper picture .
Before you can control people ... they must be disarmed . It's all about the disarming of the American Citizen . What was the one thing that slaves couldn't be allowed to own ...Firearms .
Armed men will fight and die for their freedom ... disarm them and they are no longer free men .
The ultimate goal is to disarm the American Citizen ... That is what it realy is all about ...
Gary
 
This was my question.
Are we putting forth as much effort to "reframe" the discussion of "America's gun crisis" as the other side? Other than simply countering with quotes of the Founding Fathers and the Bill of Rights are we doing enough to directly rebut and expose the fallacies and bad logic of antis' strategies such as this?
Only one person addressed it. My answer would be a strong negative.
It has nothing to do with ending mass shootings ... you have to look at the deeper picture .
Who is the "you" in having to look at the deeper picture? Really hope you're not directing that at the OP (me). I've only been a 2A advocate and RKBA activist for about forty years. I pretty much understand, by this point, the antis' agenda. What I don't understand is why so many of us rely on the same tired old tropes rather than directly targeting the antis' nonsense.
 
What I don't understand is why so many of us rely on the same tired old tropes rather than directly targeting the antis' nonsense.
One major thing we don't have is allies in the mainstream media to project our agenda to the entire population like the anti's and rainbow haired they/them leftists currently enjoy. When I see a senator or congressman making a good case for us, I immediately remind myself that hardly anyone is seeing it, but we've all seen the crying moms, mountains of flowers and solemn mourners, because that's better for ratings and fits their agenda.

They never want to put an armed protector stopping a lunatic in play and will even deride heroic acts and try to turn the attention away from it....
 
While the lawsuits may or may not be successful and have a primary motivation of putting manufacturers out of business, what you will see is a change in advertising emphasis away from promoting the killer aspects, man card notions about their products. The defensive aspect will substitute for that. The current suits have focused in large part on the advertising being inducive of violent acts to certain individuals. I recall some ammo ends pushing its lethality in a manner which might turn off a jury. If someone asks to 'show me case', there are plenty of them where it was brought up. Now, HPs will be brought up by some prosecutors but having the company add on with such, doesn't help you and is part of the new lawsuits.

As far as making our case beyond cliches, sigh - yeah - that's a problem. Gun folks sometimes are counter productive. It's well known now that the 3,3,3; 5 is enough cliche has been brought up by judges deciding in favor of gun and magazine bans. On our pages, we see folks saying that the average is blah, blah - so you are a nut if you carry more or have a shotgun with more than 4.
 
Three yards, three rounds, three seconds

5 is enough - is from debates about why carrying a SW J frame is sufficient AND if you carry a higher capacity gun, you are a nut. This is different from the nuanced trainer world that argues that you can learn to shoot a J frame or similar well and you carry them if NPE, clothing, dress constraints exist PLUS you acknowledge that:

1. The average isn't want always happens
2. The small guns are difficult to shoot
3. You may run into the rare but more extreme situation where the limited capacity and supposed rule ain't what's happening to you.

Here's a good discussion. Now if you read this, one point is that the civilian probably will be most likely involved in a close in economically motivated crime. However, that doesn't always happen, something higher than average does happen.

If you can conceal and it is legal, the pro world either goes for:

1. A semi with 10 or more and an extra mag or two. Some of the 7 to 8 round semis with extra mags are becoming popular but now the firms are upping the little guns to 10s. Like the Ruger 380 linr.

Or if not

2. A pocket J, acknowledging its limits.

Hope this helps.
 
It has nothing to do with ending mass shootings ... you have to look at the deeper picture .
Before you can control people ... they must be disarmed . It's all about the disarming of the American Citizen . What was the one thing that slaves couldn't be allowed to own ...Firearms .
Armed men will fight and die for their freedom ... disarm them and they are no longer free men .
The ultimate goal is to disarm the American Citizen ... That is what it realy is all about ...
Gary
If ending misused violence involving lawfully purchased firearms was the misguided and illogical goal of these people, they would be also suing every drug manufacturer for the drug crisis.
 
I would imagine that a large section on the mass shootings tally is gang related. There fore in my book that's tough toenails. But, the drip drip drip of school age children being slaughtered en mass by young disconnected male youth is NOT going to be allowed forever. Right after Sandy Hook I remember one group standing up and they said "Sorry your dead children don't trump my 2A" That's where we are. But, Boy's in a civilized society, that drip drip drip is coming to a conclusion. The sooner the better. Start with a dead school child and work forward from there, while maintaining our constitutional rights.
 
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Making this about school shootings vs constitutional rights plays right into the antis hands. It’s not about the children. It’s about using dead kids as an excuse to remove the power of arms from the citizenry. There are those who may THINK it’s about children, but it’s really not.
 
Celebrities and the main stream are all controlled by someone (globalist, billionaires, religious extremist, China, etc, etc).

We are almost completely on our own. More help is not on the way.
 
Antis believe suing gunmakers will end mass shootings.” No, they don’t. They just want to be able to sue gunmakers out of existence.
Exactly. Gunmaker liability for the criminal misuse of guns is designed, simply, to put gunmakers out of business, or to limit them strictly to government contracts. But even if new production of guns ceased tomorrow, there are already plenty of guns in the pipeline, enough to supply mass shootings for the next 100 years. In the end, gun control is a fool's errand. But -- and this is the important point -- the antigun "movement" is an end in itself. Lots of politicians and operatives are making nice livings stoking this hysteria.
 
This has nothing to do with reducing mass shootings and they know it. It’s all about attacking guns, period. They want them all, and not to reduce crime or save lives, but to have more control and feel safer telling you how to run your life.

Vote no, vote against politicians who have a history of voting for anti legislation. It’s pretty simple.

Very true. I've been in the middle of 2 riots( Watts and Rodney King) if these folks and politicians had been there I'd like to think they would realize what would happen if people couldn't defend themselves. The Korean small business owners defending their property and livelihoods had a huge impact on stopping the Rodney King riots.
 
It looks pretty hopeless from where I stand, it's just a matter of which generation let's it go. I'd like to think we all of us here of age to have children at home, are schooling them on this stuff and raising them to be pro 2A, etc...

It's sad to say but you wouldn't have to look very far on this forum or local gun club to find people who would claim to be Pro 2A/RKBA but are really just as anti gun as the rest of them, they just happen to own a few firearms that are acceptable and appropriate. They tend to be guys with no interest in semi auto's and think anybody who needs to walk around with a "13 shot clip" is either a terrible shot or an idiot.

That mentality, I guess "fudd" mentality is a major poke in the rear for the cause, these dummies think they have the "good guns" and others have the "bad guns". They don't think about a single thing but themselves.

ETA: the "13 shot clip" remark was a reference pulled from a contractor who was working on the same building project with me and claimed to be pro 2A. I didn't even challenge him in any aggressive kind of way but I just put some of my input into the mix and just like any good anti, got all huffy and said something to the effect of "you tell me any reason you'd need to go around with a 13 shot clip". I happened to be carrying a gun with a 15 shot "clip" but didn't think anything I could say would be worth a damn to the guy so what's the point....
 
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“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
― C. S. Lewis
They don't think about a single thing but themselves.

this
 
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