any/all .38special Snub Nose shooters

[1man]

Just curious if anyone out there had any or many experience(s) with 38 Special +P+ ammunition in their small framed/snubnosed .38?

I have a S&W 640(all steel 38spl, not 357) and I'm thinking about testing some +P+ ammo. S&W claimed they designed the 640 model to handle "high pressure/high velocity" .38 special loads! I've shot, tested(recovery from rapid engagement drills/follow-up shots) and carry Federal Nyclad 158gr.+P, Speer GD 135+P and Corbon DPX 110gr.+P. I perfer heavy weighted loads in .38(Corbon 110 are my least perfered due to low weight).


I'm thinking of testing the Federal 147gr.+P+ HydroShok loads, anyone have any experience with these?

How does the +P+ stuff vary between the loads that I use?

What's your take/advise on +P+ ammo?

 

[vanfunk]

I haven't found the +P+ fodder to offer any meaningful advantage over the regular +P loads. They're expensive, but IMO the best ammo out there right now for .38 snubs is the Buffalo Bore "heavy" stuff. They offer a soft lead 158 SWCHP that does an honest 950-1000 fps out of the J frame 1 7/8" barrel. That is serious punch for a snubbie; I'm not aware of any other manufacturer that can put out ammo that matches it. Even their standard pressure stuff is reaching velocities in excess of other companies' +P offerings. Disclaimer: I don't work for them or anything - I'm just an impressed consumer and "ammophile".

HTH,
vanfunk

 

[Jim March]

I have zero respect for Federal 38Spl. I've seen WAY too many reports of poor performance as per the chrony, in 4" sometimes never mind 2". The exception is their police-load +P+ and God only knows what the pressures are.

Buffalo Bore rocks. Their standard pressure stuff is as good as anybody else's +P and their +Ps stomp everything else, period. Esp. the 158+P.

The Speer 135+P is great. Remmie's 158+P lead hollowpoint kicks butt same as BuffBore's 158 standard pressure. I haven't made up my mind on the Cor-Bon 110+P DPX but it appears to be a contender. Winchester's 130+P Supreme JHP isn't half bad, probably not as good as the Speer 135+P but I'd carry it in a pinch.

Winchester's 158+P has the same ballistics as the Remmie version BUT the lead compound is harder so it's not a good choice for snubs.

Take a look at the data at:

http://www.brassfetcher.com

 

[Serpico]

I stick with Speer 135 +p...at 17 bucks a box through the LAPD store, it's hard to beat.

 

[tubeshooter]

I was never interested in +P+. Seems like it would be too much on the gun for what you are gaining, at least to me.


Better to just move up to .357 and be done with it IMHO, if you want "more".

 

[M2 Carbine]

1man
I've shot, tested(recovery from rapid engagement drills/follow-up shots) and carry Federal Nyclad 158gr.+P, Speer GD 135+P and Corbon DPX 110gr.+P. I perfer heavy weighted loads in .38(Corbon 110 are my least perfered due to low weight).

Effectiveness of the heavy loads aside, with the hot loads my recovery time suffers too much.
With full load 158gr SWC reloads I can't manage to break 5 seconds and stay within 4 inches.
I keep my 38 revolvers loaded with Federal +P LSWCHP rounds but I'm sure the time will be worse (haven't had time to try yet).
But I'm of the school of thought that five good fast hits with a lesser round beats five slow misses with a butt kicker load.

 

[Gary A]

I believe that some of the earlier Model 640s in .38 Special were, in fact, marked .38 Special +P+ on the barrels and have also read that the design and strength of the Centennial model is the reason it was chosen to be the first J-frame modified to handle .357 Magnum.

 

[1man]

Thank You everyone for your input! If there is anyone else that want to jump in to share their input, please do so!

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Hopefully these reports might be of use:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38 Snub Ammo Test.htm


Best.

 

[1man]

Thank You Stephen for the very informative report and the all the hard work putting it all together! The loads that you tested are my top 3 defense loads that I carry! I love the 158gr.+P LSWCP loads
Have you ever done an expansion test with the Federal 147gr +P+?

 

[tbeb]

FWIW...
At another gun forum, a retired west coast police officer (who worked for a large department) witnessed .38 special revolvers going out of time after just a few rounds of .38 special +P+.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Yes, I've shot it for group and velocity but have not done any expansion testing with it that I can recall.

Best.

 

[1man]

tbeb,
Do you know what kind of revolver that west coast police officer witnessed that went out-of-time?

Has anyone else heard or had this happen to there .38 shooting Federal 147gr. +P+ or any other kind of +P+ ammo?

 

[LarryS.]

I have a steel 640 that's stamped +P+ but I've never gone beyond +P ammo with it. Several hundred rounds of +P have had no negative effect though.

 

[DawgFvr]

110 gr. Corbon DPX +P

...accurate
...always expands
...less recoil so faster on follow-up shots
...no lead residue in barrel
...all copper bullet so no fragmenting

Aside from the expense, albeit our lives are worth it, what's not to like?

 

[johndoe1027]

Another good option is Speer Gold Dots in normal or +P pressures. I think they make the 38 in the "short barrel" version as well. Good expansion (though not as much as the DPX which is debateably a good thing due to lack of penetration) and very accurate.

I have had +P+ ammo recommended by a undertaker (not sure what they prefer to be called these days) who performed the services on a tragic suicide. Long gruesome ugly story short, they were "effective". That was at "point blank" range too. That said, he was the only person that has EVER recommended +P+ ammo (9mm in this case). IMHO it's not worth risking your gun, eyes, and hands for an extra 100 fps (give or take).

 

[tbeb]

1man

I was wrong when I said "revolvers". Test was done with one gun--a S & W Model 36. I do not know date of manufacture. After firing 10 rounds, gun misfired regularly.

Some time ago, I learned everything I could about the 110 gr. +p+. I settled with the 158 gr. lead hollowpoint. (I have some +p Speer 135 grainers which I haven't tested yet.)

Personally, I would not be afraid to carry +p+ in a 640 that was not marked +p+ on the gun. I would not practice with it. I'd be afraid that the frame might stretch.