Any Benefit to Holosight on HD Pump Action Shotgun?

[Doctor Suarez]

Hi there. I currently have a Remmy 870 "Riot" on Home Defense duty, which currently has a standard front bead sight.

Naturally, when one owns a firearm that's black in color, one simply cannot help but want to add all manner of doodads and geegaws to it.

For HD duty, how much would I stand to benefit from adding a more sophisticated sighting system, such as a holosight or at least something that glows in the dark?

Is it instead far more prudent to spring for a light-equipped forend?

Does anyone know of a way to light your forend without dropping $300 for a Surefire rig?

Thanks!

 

[The Deer Hunter]

From what I hear, those forends with the lights in them leave little room for the rest of your hand. I doubt a holosight will really help you, indoors.

 

[MAX100]

A bead sight is all you will need for home defense. Keep it simple. If you are going get into 3 or 2 gun matches some find a red dots type sights and ghost ring sights helpful. They are also good in some tactical situations. You will find a flashlight will be helpful. A good low cost flashlight is the made in Spain Ledwave Z5 it is a copy of the Insight Z-3. They cost about $55. You will need a rail mount with it. It will mount on a picatinny or weaver rail but you might have to open up the inside rail of the Z5 a little with a razor knife so it will slide on the rail easier. There are rail mounts available for the 870 but many will require you to have a mag tube ext on your 870 to mount them on.


GC

 

[Matt304]

I'd say when inside, just stick to a bead sight. Your instinct will aim you faster than any sight will typically in a close quarters scenario.

I use a Holosight and they are awesome outdoors, but inside you would have to turn it on and then maybe adjust brightness. And taking additional time is probably a no-no.

 

[nezumi]

From what I've heard (haven't tried it myself), it may be worthwhile to paint the bead sight a brighter color like orange, so you can acquire it quicker in the dark. Make sure you apply the paint (nail polish would be best, I hear) very carefully, so it's only where you can see it, not a bright marker for whoever you're shooting at. Use nail polish, and obviously it depends on the ambient light around your house. Also, take with a grain of salt, I'm just a newbie who reads stuff. I haven't done it to my own gun (I live in an urban area, so no need) and haven't seen anyone try it.

If you balk at buying bright orange nail polish for just one application, keep in mind you can also use it to mark your shells. Leaving a line on shot and not on slugs means you can identify them by feel in the dark, and it's a bright mark you can see quickly if there is light.

 

[CWL]

It really depends on how good of a shotgunner you are.

If you have patterned the SG & know exactly what your choice of ammo will do at every range, then a holoscope/red dot may help your precision shots.

If your defensive training includes making precision headshots @ 15-20 yards without fear of hitting anyone else, then that red dot can really help you speedup the shot.

If you are still at the point, shoot and hope you hit something stage, then your money would be better spent on practice.

 

[ArmedBear]

If your defensive training includes making precision headshots @ 15-20 yards without fear of hitting anyone else, then that red dot can really help you speedup the shot.

Someone needs to tell all the clay shooters that they can't possibly hit a target going 35 MPH at 50 yards, with a bead, then. Clearly, they're not aware of this.

If you have some practice with a shotgun that fits, you don't even need the bead. You really don't need the holosight. The holosight can hardly be faster than instant point-and-shoot, which is what you can do with a plain barrel and some practice.

If you need to make a head shot at 20 yards without hitting a hostage, for chrissakes don't use a shotgun!

 

[TimM]

I just put a Tac Star light from Sportman's Warehouse on my 590. It seems to be built very well, comes with a pressure switch and is nice and bright bright (70 lumens). $85 and comes with mounting hardware.

If you are gonna stick with buckshot I would get one of these - HIVIZ Tactical Shotgun Low Profile Sight Shotgun without Rib Steel Blue Fiber Optic Green, this is what I have on my Mossberg.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=443627&t=11082005

If you are gonna shoot slugs I would consider ghost rings.

Have fun dressing her up and do what is most comfortable for you.

 

[madcratebuilder]

My 870P has factory iron sights. I added the HIVIZ, front and rear. Cheap, about $35 from Brownell's I really like them, so mush so that I've added fiber optics to several guns now.
Check out Command Arms web site, they have a very affordable light mounting system, and a nice affordable light. If I didn't already have a TacStar I would get one. They also have a 870 pistol grip/buffer tube that allows you to mount any AR stock to a 870.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Nothing's faster than a bead. A $3 bottle of Testor's Enamel in Bright Yellow will add a little more contrast for low light.

Do that and then learn the gun....

 

[throdgrain]

Someone needs to tell all the clay shooters that they can't possibly hit a target going 35 MPH at 50 yards, with a bead, then. Clearly, they're not aware of this.

If you have some practice with a shotgun that fits, you don't even need the bead. You really don't need the holosight. The holosight can hardly be faster than instant point-and-shoot, which is what you can do with a plain barrel and some practice.

If you need to make a head shot at 20 yards without hitting a hostage, for chrissakes don't use a shotgun!

lmao

 

[rcmodel]

I really like EOTech's on AR's!
But any form of electronic sight would be a major blunder for a HD shotgun.
Why?
Because you have to turn them on to use them, and that takes precious time.

If you can plan ahead & schedule for a home invasion, I would recommend them.
Otherwise, no!

The EO switch has to be held down for a couple of seconds before it comes on, and in that time you could have jacked a shell & shot the BG two or three times with open sights, while waiting for the EO sight to light up.

Spend the money on a Tritium front sight, or a Surefire forend if you have to spend big money for something!


rcmodel

 

[rellascout]

Don't waste the money. At the ranges you will use a self defense shot gun the bead sight is the fast enough. I painted mine with florescent paint. I can see it in the dark at night in my home.

 

[ArmedBear]

Shotguns are pointed, not aimed. Both eyes open, both eyes focused on the target, not the gun. If this doesn't make sense to you, ask someone who knows to teach you.

Good Cowboy Action shotgun shooters know how to do this well on simulated human threats, at defensive ranges, for speed, with very simple firearms.

Some competitive trap shooters remove their beads altogether -- they find them to be a distraction from the target, not a shooting aid.

If the shotgun fits you, and you are thoroughly familiar with it, you can hit targets at defensive range instinctively and almost instantly. If you're really being threatened by an armed intruder in your home, you don't want to slow down or take your focus away from the threat, even to look at a bead.

A shotgun looks like a rifle, but it is used differently.

 

[buzz_knox]

Shotguns are pointed, not aimed. Both eyes open, both eyes focused on the target, not the gun. If this doesn't make sense to you, ask someone who knows to teach you.

I was taught by Louis Awerbuck. He taught me to aim using the sights (whether the sight is a simple bead or a ghost ring) rather than point.

 

[Liko81]

You can always use Bright Sights. Grab a bottle of yellow or orange Ghost-Glow paint (something like 6 bucks a bottle; one bottle if kept properly lasts YEARS) and paint a couple of coats onto the front bead and along the top of the receiver or on the inside of the rear iron sight if you have one. Store the gun somewhere where it'll get some UV light (black light in your closet perhaps? It's a bit college-student but hey ) and you will not fail to see your sights. I think tritium might be overkill, though a tritium front bead would be even more foolproof (the Ghost-Glow paint requires a "charge" in order to glow). A fiber-optic sight is not a night sight; there's gotta be light for the optic to pick up. I have however seen plenty of shotguns with those sights installed; they're a cheap upgrade and more visible than the brass pip in anything but extreme low-light.

 

[TimM]

I was taught by Louis Awerbuck. He taught me to aim using the sights (whether the sight is a simple bead or a ghost ring) rather than point.

I grew up hunting ruffed grouse and cottontails back east. Using sights to aim is probably appropriate when firing slugs but when using shot I personally don't even see the shotgun, barrel or bead - just the target.

 

[ArmedBear]

I'm with TimM.

I have every bit of confidence that the technique I was taught, and that put quail in my pan on Sunday, won't work on a larger, closer, slower target. On the one occasion when I've tried it on steel plates, it worked quite well, too.

One shot on Sunday sticks out in particular. I literally dropped the bird flying by as soon as I saw it, after walking along the side of a hill with my gun at my waist. No way I could have done that if I'd paused to aim, closed one eye, or anything else that resembled rifle technique.

All the Soldier of Fortune articles in the world don't count for anything, to me, compared to my real experiences and experiments, including misguided attempts, intentional or not, to "aim" a shotgun.

Also, adrenaline, with its effect on mental focus, rapid motion and visual perception, improves one's ability to point quickly, but degrades one's ability to aim, because it causes "the shakes." Hunters who shoot flying birds with a shotgun as well as standing game with a rifle are quite familiar with this on both sides of the coin -- sometimes to our chagrin.

 

[buzz_knox]

You all are better than I am. During one movement drill, I tried point shooting on 8 inch steel plates using shot. At short range, the pattern went high or low, but didn't hit the plate sufficiently to make much of a difference. When I used the ghost rings, I made the hits fine. So, you stick to what works for you, and I'll stick to what works for me, and we'll get away from the absolute statements that don't apply to everyone.

 

[ArmedBear]

buzz, its unfortunate that a paid instructor didn't teach you how to use a shotgun properly. It was easier for him to tell you to just shoot like you were shooting a rifle. Then again, maybe the gun didn't fit you at all, in which case there was little alternative. One way or another, it does get your shot on target. It just isn't the fastest way to do so -- which presumably is what the OP wants if he spends money on a fancy sight.

Pointing does require practice. It's a whole-body thing. I do it at doorknobs and bookshelves at home, to keep up my basic skills.

However, it DOES apply to everyone that practiced pointing with a gun that fits is faster than other ways of getting on target. That's just a fact.

It may not be worth it to you to take the time to learn that particular skill with a shotgun, and there's nothing wrong with that. Life offers too many good things to allow us to spend time on things we aren't excited about.

But that does not change the fact that pointing is a more effective and faster way to put shot on target, as proven by Tom Knapp, Kim Rhode, and everyone else who has ever set world records with shotguns. "Absolute"? Well, yes. It is.

What he asked was, "Is there a benefit to a Holosight?" The answer is, "No. A gun that fits, proper technique, and practice do."

Addendum:
I've also entered one small steel plate competition with a pistol. I won that, using the same technique: both eyes, whole upper body, point and pull. The sights of a pistol are a tad more useful because they indicate to your brain when you have the gun down after recoil, but focusing on them is still slower than not taking the time to do so. I hadn't shot a pistol in months; I found that my shotgun-practiced technique, adapted to pistol shooting, worked better than slow, conscious aiming.

 

[Matt-J2]

So, you stick to what works for you, and I'll stick to what works for me, and we'll get away from the absolute statements that don't apply to everyone.

Well now, if we did that it wouldn't be the internet, would it?




In any case, I thought about adding on the red dot and or ghost rings(+ other fun goodies) at one point, then realized I wasn't going to spend the training time necessary for their use to become second nature. So, for me, keep a simple bead.

 

[Striker]

A shotgun looks like a rifle, but it is used differently.

Except when shooting single projectile (i.e. slugs) munitions. I certainly don't "point" shoot deer with slugs, nor do I point shoot at a threat other then at contact distance.

Now I'm all about shooting moving clays by putting the shot pattern where they are going to be, rather then where they are. (B class Trapper and A class Skeeter), but when shooting slugs, the shotgun is a de-facto rifle that requires aiming.

Bottom line is if you want to use learn to use a shotgun as a defensive weapon, go with Awerbuck. If you want to shoot clays, go with Bender. Same basic tool, but entirely different method of application.

Just my opinion, YMMV.

BTW, I did and do use a reflex sight on a shotgun, but with a tritium dot. A properly dialed in dot does make things easier at night.