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Any reason there are no xds/shield’s in 10mm?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by beeenbag, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. beeenbag
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    beeenbag Contributing Member

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    As the title says, I wonder why there are no single stack compact guns in 10mm? If the 45 fits, a 10mm will fit. Is it something mechanical just not doable in that size or is it just not a marketable item?

    I would buy the first 4” xds or shield 10 that I saw.

    need to start chanting to the manufacturers to give us a carry 10 that isn’t a full steel 1911 or a fat daddy g29.
     
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  2. mcb

    mcb Member

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    The increased recoil going from 45 ACP to 10mm Auto would be hard on both the shooter and the pistol. Probably not enough people want it to justify the required engineering costs to make it work well.
     
  3. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    Sore hands
     
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  4. beeenbag
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    beeenbag Contributing Member

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    couldn’t be worse than a scandium frame 357
     
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  5. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I actually think it would be more pleasant to shoot than that mean little revolver but it would still be something of a handful to control. No doubt there would be a market for it but is the market large enough to pay for the engineering is a question only the marketing guys can answer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
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  6. beeenbag
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    beeenbag Contributing Member

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    here’s to hoping there are some 10mm fans in the marketing department. The current resurge in 10mm may be catching some attention. I can hope anyways

    Personally I would think a carry size 10 would sell better than a full size steel revolver in 10mm. That’s just me though
     
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  7. IdaD

    IdaD Member

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    I'm content with 9mm in a little single stack, but I want Smith and Wesson to release a 10mm in their full size 5" M&P pistol. I'd be all over that like a fat kid at a buffet.
     
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  8. Fiv3r

    Fiv3r Member

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    I think I would only look at it if the barrel were a bit longer than the standard Shield to squeeze out more performance from such an energetic round. Maybe in their 4" version.

    Still, I look at the 10mm as a great full size wilderness round. Something like a Glock 20 fits the bill of good capacity and sporting enough barrel to make use of the energy. I never saw much use for the tiny pocket rocket set up.

    Then again, I have a 2.5" .357 tucked in my waistband stoked with fairly hot .357 rounds as I type. I'm being a bit of a hypocrite when the gun I am carrying is the poster child for perceived inefficiency;)
     
  9. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Because relatively few people shoot "real" 10mm and think "you know, this would really be great if the gun weighed half as much, offered 30% less gripping surface, and really, really concentrated the recoil on a narrow backstrap. Also, more blast from a short barrel. Yeah, that would be sweet."

    I'm a big 10mm fan. I think 10mm in a service-sized gun is the upper limit of combat-controllable cartridges for the huge majority of the shooting population. Any more recoil than that and you've reached the level where most people are going to encounter marksmanship problems, and virtually nobody is going to have truly effective levels of recoil control. Dramatically reducing the size and weight of the gun adds recoil. I don't think many people want what you're describing, and I think very, very, very few people would be able to use it effectively.
     
  10. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    You need to be able to get a serious grip to control 10 mm rounds. That is tough to do with a small framed handgun.
     
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  11. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    I've been shooting 10mm from Glock 20 and 29 for a while. Even the hottest loads are very manageable from that gun. Standard 45 ACP bites my hand worse from a steel 1911 than 200 gr Double Tap loads do from the Glocks. But that recoil could become an issue from lighter guns.

    Manufacturers have struggled to build a reliable 10mm pistol and that may well be the primary reason. The Glocks and long discontinued Smith 1006 series of pistols are the only designs that have proven to work 100%. Things have gotten better, but manufacturers have struggled to get 1911's to work with the round and the EAA guns used to be pretty bad. They are doing better with more recent versions, but you still see far more problems with those guns chambered in 10mm. I've not heard anything about the new Sig one way or another.

    My guess is that if someone wants to introduce another gun in 10mm it is going to have to be something designed from the ground up for the round rather than trying to make something originally designed for 45 work. And they may figure they won't sell enough to justify the trouble.
     
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  12. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Why? What is a 10mm gonna do for you in a short barrel that a 40SW will not do?

    Maybe you get Bond Arms or NAA to custom make a little derringer for you.:)
    How about a Heizer Arms 223 Derringer? That would be fun as well.:uhoh:
     
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  13. beeenbag
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    beeenbag Contributing Member

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    because I want one... your logic, you shouldn’t have more than a handful of guns cause ya know, what are they gonna do?

    I think more people than you’d imagine would bite, especially in a 4” barrel.

    it would be way more practical and less painful to shoot than j frame 357s. Would have more capacity and more power than a 3-4” k/l frame 357 and be easier to carry in every factor.
     
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  14. mcb

    mcb Member

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    10mm is still going to do more ballistically than 40S&W even from a short barrel. Might not be worth the extra muzzle blast and recoil but it's going to give more velocity and/or more mass than 40S&W. 10mm has more case volume and a higher max pressure. If we select the right propellants/bullet combination tailored for a short barrel it will significantly out perform the 40S&W pushing the same projectile from the same barrel length. How much more effective it will be on the terminal end is also very arguable.
     
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  15. Sour Kraut

    Sour Kraut Member

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    I haven’t seen any issues with the XDM 10mm from Springfield. It’s a solid performer.
     
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  16. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    I never said anything about having a certain number of guns, As you said it is not a marketable item.
    I guess that's why the the single stack version you are looking for is so easy to find.:)
    It would have to be one heavy duty polymer gun to withstand constant 10 mm shooting. A lot more pressure than a 45 ACP.

    As to how much better than a 40 SW, it's about how much butter is a 357 then a 38+P in a short barrel is gonna be". Maybe a little but no enough to warranty the blast flash, recoil and wear and tear. Look at the ballistics of a 40 sw 180 gr vs a 10mm 180 grain. I can load 40 SW to near that of a 10mm

    From Hodgdon
    40SW
    180 gr Hornady 180 gr xtp max load of Longshot gives 1159fps in a 4"barrel 32,300psi

    10mm 180gr sierra max load of Longshot gives 1287 fps out of 5'barrel 34,600 psi

    http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

    "There is a customer born every minute"
     
  17. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    Wrapping your hand around the cartridge and smacking the primer with a hammer wouldn’t be much worse than a scandium-framed 357. I have a 340PD and I pray I never have to shoot it ever again.
     
  18. tommy.duncan

    tommy.duncan Member

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    I have 2 10mm P220 Elites, one is SA/DA and the other one is SAO. Both are great shooters. No problems here.
    I would love an XDs and a M&P in 10mm. (and a H&K USP, and a Sig P227 LOL)
     
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  19. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    Much more delicately stated (more HighRoad) than the response that came to my mind while reading the OP. :)
     
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  20. 94045

    94045 Member

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    The 340 PD.... The world's best .38 Wadcutter Defensive Handgun!:rofl:
     
  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    :D
     
  22. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Because ouch.

    But I'm right there with you and would probably trade away mu XDs-45 in a heartbeat to pay for a 10mm version. I load my own, so I would reserve unpleasant nuclear loads for the woods, but keep them to 40 S&W velocities for urban environments.

    Unfortunately I believe SA would sell about 7 of these, and 3 or 4 of them would be to people participating in this thread.
    I agree.

    Where I really think SA is missing the mark is they should have kept their 3.8" double stack XDm around, and put it in there. That would be direct competition to the G29, and since I dislike Glocks, I'd bite. It'd also be a lot more pleasant to shoot. As it is right now, I find my interest in the full size XDms in 10mm faded very fast.

    What I REALLY think they should do is chamber an XDs for 38 super. You'd end up with a 7+1 fairly mild shooting pocket rocket, though recoil would still be substantial. Unfortunately it would be way too much of a gamble on SA's part, as reliability would be a problem as some shooters use Super Comp brass and others use rimmed, and decent factory SD ammo isn't exactly overwhelming store shelves. None the less, I'd buy one immediately if they ever did it.

    Both of my Sig P220s in 10mm have been 100% reliable and are pretty pleasant shooters.

    However, despite that, I still think Sig should have made an all steel version of the P227 in 10mm. I bet it would've outsold the P220 version since people like capacity. None the less, My P220s are keepers.
     
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  23. beeenbag
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    beeenbag Contributing Member

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    Oh no they’d sell a bunch at first, then the used market would be phenomenal once people started shooting them. I still say if there is enough market to keep making scandium 357 magnum j frames, there’s enough of us recoil loving shooters to buy a subcompact 10mm.
     
  24. <*(((><
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    I thought the narrow grip of my .40S&W Shield was hard to grip as it was. Big reason why I sold my Shield just didn't like the narrowness and pointedness of the grip felt like it teeter-tottered in my grip when shooting. I can only imagine a 10mm wouldn't improve that for me, but I'm not everyone.

    If they squared off the back of the grip (aiding in spreading out the force and providing wider back for stability) and made it a touch wider, gave it a 4" barrel, got rid of the hinged trigger for a blade style safety trigger, then a 10mm Shield would be awesome in my mind.

    Oh wait Glock already has done that with the G29.

    But for those who like S&W, if they made at least the changes to the rear portion of the grip I bet it would sell well.
     
  25. needmorecowbell

    needmorecowbell Member

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    G29 is perfect for 10mm carry. That gun disappears under a t shirt and recoil very manageable. It’s just about the ultimate ccw. All the pundits like to talk about what gun is going to be the G19 killer, closest might be the G29.
     
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