Any tips for setting dies to get consistent results?

[slowr1der]

So I successfully reloaded my first couple of cartridges. I did a couple different amounts of powder and shot 3 shots each. I set the bullet seating die to a result to come out the same as the factory rounds measured. I didn't have much of a an issue.
I found a load that is shooting around .45" groups at 100 yards. To me this is just amazing as it's the best group I've gotten. .8" or so is about normal. One of the other loads shot around this and one shot about 1.5".
So I thought great, I will just load up a few more of this same load. That's when the problem started. I went to set up the seating die again and for some reason I couldn't get it to seat the bullets to the same depth as I had before. I tried several different times to get it set. I finally got a few rounds loaded but I was having to seat them. It would often be a few thousands too tall so I'd then adjust the die and run it through again.

I finally got it to where I thought it was adjusting to the right depth. That was until I tried the next one which seated way too deep. I just can not get it set to seat the bullets the same depth as the load I had before. The last time I don't remember this trouble. I set it which didn't take long then all of them came out the same. This time I can't get it exact and then it seems like none of them are coming out the same.

Are there any tips to do this? It's really being a pain to try to get set.

 

[slowr1der]

Also should I be adjusting the whole die or just the seating punch part of it? I'm not sure if it's actually called a seating punch but that's what I've seen it referred to. Also should I be adjusting the whole die or just the seating punch part of it? I'm not sure if it's actually called a seating punch but that's what I've seen it referred to.

 

[LiveLife]

should I be adjusting the whole die or just the seating punch part of it?

If it is a combination crimp/seating die, the body adjusts the taper crimp and the "seat punch" or the knob on the top adjust the bullet seat depth. I do not have to adjust my die setting since I have them mounted on the turret for the progressive press, but I do check the OAL of first few rounds of the reloading session and adjust bullet seat depth ONLY if needed.

BTW, are you reloading lead bullets?

I check the inside of my crimp/seating die for bullet lube buildup and clean as necessary before each reloading session and check the OAL for the first few rounds.

For jacketed/plated bullets, I don't worry about the lube buildup, but I still check/clean as necessary.

 

[slowr1der]

No I'm reloading the Hornady SST's. I kind of wish I had gotten a Lee press that took turret's. However, I just have a RCBS Rockchucker press so I can't leave the die in and set all the time.

 

[LiveLife]

Some have posted using locking pins or screws for their dies - perhaps they will post what worked for them.

 

[ScratchnDent]

If you measure the length of your bullets themselves, you'll likely find that they vary in length by a few thousandths. That's pretty typical.

The seating stem in the die doesn't contact the very tip of the bullet during the seating operation, rather it contacts the bullet further down the ogive where it gets fatter.

All this adds up so that your cartridge OAL will very by a few thousandths, and you can go nuts chasing the different lengths up and down with your die setting.

If I'm going for an OAL length of say 2.850, I'm happy if they all come out of the press between 2.847 and 2.853.

 

[Beelzy]

First set the crimp with the die body ,then adjust the bullet seating stem for depth.

It won't go correctly of you do it the other way around.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Beelzy is almost there. First back out the seater and crimper dies so they will not touch the case or bullet. Then you start screwing the bullet seater in until you have the desired cartridge length, and back the seater out again. Then, with the cartridge in the raised position, screw the crimper die down to where it touches the cartridge. Then you can adjust the crimp height.

After the crimp height is set, tighten the lock ring. Then adjust the seating stem to where it just touches the bullet. and secure the retaining nut.

Once you get these steps down tighten the setscrew in the lock ring. The next time you need to remove the die leave the nut in place for a stop

 

[243winxb]

deleted, do not know what dies he is using or what hes loading. It makes a difference.

 

[slowr1der]

Using RCBS die but also have a Lee die for .243 loading Hornady SST bullets.

 

[slowr1der]

If you measure the length of your bullets themselves, you'll likely find that they vary in length by a few thousandths. That's pretty typical.

The seating stem in the die doesn't contact the very tip of the bullet during the seating operation, rather it contacts the bullet further down the ogive where it gets fatter.

All this adds up so that your cartridge OAL will very by a few thousandths, and you can go nuts chasing the different lengths up and down with your die setting.

If I'm going for an OAL length of say 2.850, I'm happy if they all come out of the press between 2.847 and 2.853.

I think this is what's going on. Can anyone comment any further on this? I was trying to set the length of all of them to 2.616. Some were coming out 2.616 then the next one would be 2.6175 or similar. I could not get them to all be 2.616 or even 2.6165. Since I'm a perfectionist I like to have everything perfect.

Are the rest of you guys having this issue? Or can you get them exactly the same?

I got out a box of factory ammo and measured them for the first time and each one of those varied a little too so maybe it's normal.

Anyway, I reloaded some and got them all within .001 of each other. .0015 at max. Now some of them didn't seat as deep and I had to put them in the die again and then it would seat it a little deeper and get it close to the same as the last. A few it seated too deep and I put it in the bullet puller and just pulled the bullet out a little and re seated it down to normal. Since I got them all within .0015 of each other should the accuracy be pretty good? I thought the last batch they all were 2.616 but maybe not everyone was exactly the same. I know they shot .457-.520" groups consistently which I really liked.

 

[308win]

Have you trimmed your cases to the same length. Cases will stretch when fired.

 

[slowr1der]

Yes cases are trimmed to the same length. I tried to get them all within .0005" of each other so they are all very close. I will say I'm trying 3 different kinds of brass and I noticed I had more issues getting the bullets to seat to the same depth in the Winchester brass rather than the Hornady and Federal.

 

[Peter_S]

When I seat the bullet I do it in two steps. I think the seater contacts the bullet slightly off center sometimes and if you seat the bullet all in one stroke you can get a small difference in depth each time.

I start the bullet seating stroke and about halfway through I lower the ram a bit so the seater disconnects with the bullet and then I finish seating the bullet.

I think what's happening is that the seater centers itself more consistently on the second time it contacts the bullet.

Maybe I'm just kidding myself but this seems to work better for me.

 

[Sediment]

My rifle rounds get to usually .003" of each other and unless I dial in the die for every round I press in they vary by a minor amount. It's common due to the different in bullet length and brass length. This is normal and in my personal rifles I find that if I can chamber and extract each round without issue it is good to go.

YMMV

 

[rfwobbly]

When doing reloading on a Rock Chucker you've got to be able to get all your dies back in the exact same position each time. You need a lock ring that will stay in place, even when the die is not in the press. For that reason, the lock rings that are little more than hex nuts (Lee & Dillon come to mind) will not do you any good.

I like a lock nuts like RCBS or Hornady. These can be readily locked where they sit. In this way, when the die is removed from the press the setting can be retained. So next time you install the die, you simply run it down to the lock nut and tighten it every so slightly. Maybe 5-8 ft-lbs; just a wrench bump.

These high grade lock nuts are for sale as separate pieces. I especially like the ones from Hornady. They will lock down hard and not destroy your die's threads. And of course, since all Rock Chucker dies use the same thread, Hornady lock rings will fit your dies no matter who made them.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=391359

All the best.

 

[243winxb]

COL variation of .005" for single stage press and .010" for a progressive press is common. http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi

Seating depth variations

There are a number of possible causes for overall length variation. One is the way it is measured. If you measure overall length from the tip of the bullet to the base of the case, remember to subtract the variation due to bullet length tolerance. The bullets will vary in length due to manufacturing tolerances (bullets with exposed lead noses are the worst in this regard) and this will add to the overall cartridge length variation. Remember that the bullet seater plug does not (or shouldn't) contact the tip of the bullet when seating, but contacts farther down the ogive. For a more accurate seating depth measurement, take the seater plug out of the bullet seating die, place it on top of the cartridge and measure from the base of the case to the top of the seater plug.

Another possible cause for bullet seating depth variation is seating and crimping at the same time when trying to apply a firm crimp to untrimmed cases. Variation in case length also causes variation in the amount of crimp applied. Long cases get a heavier crimp than short ones. When seating and crimping at the same time, the crimp is formed as the bullet is seated into the case. The crimp will form sooner on a long case, and therefore the bullet will not be seated as deeply. The solution is to seat and crimp in a separate step (the Lee Factory Crimp die is good for this) and/or trim cases to a uniform length.

The amount of force required to cycle a progressive press varies with the number of cases in the shell plate. When the shell plate is full, it is harder to lower the lever than when there are one or two cases present. This can lead to variation in cartridge overall length because there are different loads placed on the working parts of the press. When the shell plate is full, seating depth will be slightly long, because the load is higher and all of the clearances are taken up. With the shell plate nearly empty, the load is not great enough to squeeze out these clearances, and the seating depth is short.

 

[JimKirk]

If you are that much of a perfectionist ....then reloading is not for you ....find another hobby quick. You're talking a bullfrog hair short or long, it is not worth the effort to get it perfect, too much variances in bullets to get that close.

There is no reason that you should not be able to set your die and leave it set. Set the die for crimp or no crimp( I don't think crimping is good for any rifle save a semi auto). Lock the set screw( you did throw those damn Lee lock rings in the trash didn't you, you should or use them for fishing weights) or use the cross-bolt type. Then any bullet seating adjustment would be made with the bullet seating stem adjustment, not the die.

Jimmy K

 

[Damon555]

If you measure the length of your bullets themselves, you'll likely find that they vary in length by a few thousandths. That's pretty typical.

The seating stem in the die doesn't contact the very tip of the bullet during the seating operation, rather it contacts the bullet further down the ogive where it gets fatter.

All this adds up so that your cartridge OAL will very by a few thousandths, and you can go nuts chasing the different lengths up and down with your die setting.

If I'm going for an OAL length of say 2.850, I'm happy if they all come out of the press between 2.847 and 2.853.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[slowr1der]

If you are that much of a perfectionist ....then reloading is not for you ....find another hobby quick. You're talking a bullfrog hair short or long, it is not worth the effort to get it perfect, too much variances in bullets to get that close.

There is no reason that you should not be able to set your die and leave it set. Set the die for crimp or no crimp( I don't think crimping is good for any rifle save a semi auto). Lock the set screw( you did throw those damn Lee lock rings in the trash didn't you, you should or use them for fishing weights) or use the cross-bolt type. Then any bullet seating adjustment would be made with the bullet seating stem adjustment, not the die.

Jimmy K

Well, honestly if it doesn't matter I don't care if they aren't perfect. I just figured that if they were different lengths they would shoot differently and I didn't want to miss an animal when hunting or anything like that. Now that I know it doesn't matter if they are a few thousandths of an inch different I don't really care. I just wasn't sure if it mattered or not.

As for the lock rings. The die I'm using for a seating die is RCBS and the lock ring seems to be decent on it. I did by a Lee die to use the full length resizing die due to the fact my RCBS one is crushing the shoulders of the case. I'm going to send the RCBS one in I think. They told me to send it in and they would look at it and fix or replace it. I just wanted to have another one to use while that one was sent in. That's why I got the Lee. I didn't throw the lock rings in the trash but I will say they don't seem to stay set. I replaced them with the Lyman lock rings which while they don't seem to be as good as the RCBS they seem to work halfway decently. A lot better than the Lee ones that's for sure.


BTW since I know now that a few thousandths of a inch difference in OAL won't make a difference how much does to take to make it shoot differen't? I just don't want to miss when hunting due to my mistake. I also happen to like the amazing groups I got from my reloads so that was a plus too. How much variance in stuff should I allow before I get concerned?

One other question is if I pull a bullet it seems to go back in easier from the case stretching. Will I loose any accuracy if I still go ahead and re seat the bullet into the case without resizing the case?

 

[James2]

However, I just have a RCBS Rockchucker press so I can't leave the die in and set all the time.

Once you have the die set up properly, set the set screw in the lock ring. If there is also a lock ring on the bullet seating punch, lock it too. You can now take the die out and when you put in again it is still in adjustment.

Lee lockrings are the pits, because you can't do this. They might keep your settings as long as you don't take the die out of the press, but sure as you do, you will need to re-adjust when you put it back in.

I don't worry about a slight variation in the OAL. It is not worth worrying about. Once I get the die adjusted, I just load them and don't even check again. There is enough important stuff to worry about without stressing out over something that doesn't matter.

One other question is if I pull a bullet it seems to go back in easier from the case stretching. Will I loose any accuracy if I still go ahead and re seat the bullet into the case without resizing the case?

I would resize. (I would also keep the inside neck expander in place. You may be able to remove the decapping pin so you don't decap them.) You will most likely lose neck tension because just seating the bullet expands the brass some. Certainly if accuracy is the goal, being consistent is the way to achieve it.

 

[243winxb]

BTW since I know now that a few thousandths of a inch difference in OAL won't make a difference how much does to take to make it shoot differen't?

Always aim for as small a variations as you have. A different COL of .005" in a hunting rifle will not matter unless you go from off the lands to jammed into the lands/rifling. How much you need to go to make a difference, i dont know. I have read the Benchrest shooters buy special loading presses to control COL better or use hand tool. Walkalong can give more detail on that maybe.

One other question is if I pull a bullet it seems to go back in easier from the case stretching. Will I loose any accuracy if I still go ahead and re seat the bullet into the case without resizing the case?

Accuracy wise, you would have to shoot them to know. Its best to resize the necks, but if using a bolt action, just load them single shot and shoot them if the bullets do not move freely in the case.

 

[JimKirk]

Since I'm a perfectionist I like to have everything perfect.

Your words...

The only way to find out how much difference OAL will make is to test it in your rifle.

Load up a 100 rounds, measure them, put the 50 closest length together, put the shortest 25 and the longest 25 into another group. Shoot both groups and see how much difference between the two groups. I would think that if you have a shooter rifle, like your stated groups, then you will see very little difference.

I like to have things perfect too, but the older I get, the more I realize just how imperfect things are... and they still work.

Jimmy K

 

[LeonCarr]

If you are that much of a perfectionist, then benchrest rifle shooting is your calling.

www.benchrest.com will get you in touch with other perfectionists .

I am not trying to be a smart-aleck, but you will beat yourself to death trying to get every round the exact same length every time without very expensive bullets, very expensive inline type seating dies, or readjusting the seating die every time. With three shot groups under a half-inch at 100 yards, a custom built benchrest or varmint rifle might be what you need to shoot groups smaller than that.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr