Firehand
Member
that SOG carries? If so, what condition was it in, do you shoot it, etc.?
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Anyone bought one of the .303 Martini rifles/carbines
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Do NOT buy one. They are NOT real British manufacture. They are actually "Khyber Pass" specials made in Pakistan by local "gunsmiths."
The guys over at the Martini Henry board at www.gunboards.com do not consider these to be safe to fire.
SOG should really know what they have, as they've been told these aren't Brit issue, but they don't seem to care.
The guys over at the Martini Henry board at www.gunboards.com do not consider these to be safe to fire.
SOG should really know what they have, as they've been told these aren't Brit issue, but they don't seem to care.
jrfoxx
Member
+1 Trebor
I REALLY like the Martini style rifles, and thought about getting one from SOG, butthen I noticed that in the pic of the reciever in thier ad, they have the British crown, with V.R. (Victoria Regina-Queen Victoria), and then a manufacture date of several years AFTER the Queen's death. A little digging pointed out that that is a common Kyber Pass copy mistake, and the easiest way to tell a fake. If it has the V.R. on it, to be real, the mfg. date has to be from before the Queen's death (which, of course makes a whole lotta sense). do a google on her, and you cand find the date, and then at leats avoid all those dated later. Still a good chance of getting a fake, but at least you will know one, obvious, way to avoid getting taken. I was VERY happy when I was tipped off about this little fact, then double checked on the net, then looked close at the pic.
I think the pic in the newer ads is different now, and the date on that one may be correct now, havent double checked though, as it soured me either way, and if the pic changed, it doesnt mean they have real ones now, it just means they changed the pic, either as a fluke, or because they caught on to the mistake too.
I REALLY like the Martini style rifles, and thought about getting one from SOG, butthen I noticed that in the pic of the reciever in thier ad, they have the British crown, with V.R. (Victoria Regina-Queen Victoria), and then a manufacture date of several years AFTER the Queen's death. A little digging pointed out that that is a common Kyber Pass copy mistake, and the easiest way to tell a fake. If it has the V.R. on it, to be real, the mfg. date has to be from before the Queen's death (which, of course makes a whole lotta sense). do a google on her, and you cand find the date, and then at leats avoid all those dated later. Still a good chance of getting a fake, but at least you will know one, obvious, way to avoid getting taken. I was VERY happy when I was tipped off about this little fact, then double checked on the net, then looked close at the pic.
I think the pic in the newer ads is different now, and the date on that one may be correct now, havent double checked though, as it soured me either way, and if the pic changed, it doesnt mean they have real ones now, it just means they changed the pic, either as a fluke, or because they caught on to the mistake too.
tinygnat219
Member
I have two of the Martini Henri Nepalese "Gahendra" rifles. These are NOT safe to fire at all.
TJ
TJ
Firehand
Member
Thank you folks, that settles that!
I have one of the 577-450 rifles from SOG. It is indeed British made, and I've fired it 40 times to no ill effect with smokeless ammo.
Of course, I checked it over and it was the third one they sent to me - the first two were only good enough to be hung on the wall.
Note that this rifle was sold to me as a Nepalese rifle...
For what it's worth, mine may well be a fake, I don't have that much experience. However, markings are straight, spelled correctly, and it has the proper crown with V.R./ENFIELD/1895 on it.
Of course, I checked it over and it was the third one they sent to me - the first two were only good enough to be hung on the wall.
Note that this rifle was sold to me as a Nepalese rifle...
SOG said:These are original British Martinis that have been arsenal refinished by the British years ago. (Some might have a hairline crack, or small stock repair–Don’t expect mint rifles at this price. Barrel length may vary a little. These rifles are sold as antique, historic rifles, and are not to be shot with modern ammo. We have no testing facility, and because they were made for low-power black powder rounds, we can not assume any responibility for their safety whatsoever. We consider them potentially dangerous to be shot.
For what it's worth, mine may well be a fake, I don't have that much experience. However, markings are straight, spelled correctly, and it has the proper crown with V.R./ENFIELD/1895 on it.
jrfoxx
Member
From what I hear, it's the.303 rilfes that had a lot more fakes made, thus the odds of a .577 bing real are MUCH better, but still not guarenteed. Likely due to the greater availability and/or popularity of the .303 Brit round, I'd assume.
On Gunbroker, there is a guy who is selling Khyber Pass Lee Enfields and Lee Metfords. On many of them, the markings are screwed up (ie. unplausible dates) and there is very subtle albeit distinct alterations to the original design. As far as shootability, they are advertised as being for display ONLY.
Joe the Redneck
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To add to the confusion...
15 or so years ago i bought a 577-450 from someone in the Shotgun News (no idea anymore) The add said they were from Africa and were being sold as "barreled actions" and not expected to be usable. Well the darn thing was in great condition. locks up tight, good trigger, whole thing. The forestock had been cutdown and a few pins had been replaced.
Now the odd part...no markings on the receiver. A few numbers here and there, and there is a proof mark (or maybe an arsenal mark) onthe barrel but thats it. Nothing on the receiver. I doubt it had been ground down in a attempt to refinish, the metal is an even brown on all exposed areas.
Never fired it. I have an adapter for it to fire 45-70. If I ever get some bp cowboy loads I would feel perfecty safe giving it a go.
But yeah, stear clear of the KP stuff, unless you want a wall hanger.
JTR
15 or so years ago i bought a 577-450 from someone in the Shotgun News (no idea anymore) The add said they were from Africa and were being sold as "barreled actions" and not expected to be usable. Well the darn thing was in great condition. locks up tight, good trigger, whole thing. The forestock had been cutdown and a few pins had been replaced.
Now the odd part...no markings on the receiver. A few numbers here and there, and there is a proof mark (or maybe an arsenal mark) onthe barrel but thats it. Nothing on the receiver. I doubt it had been ground down in a attempt to refinish, the metal is an even brown on all exposed areas.
Never fired it. I have an adapter for it to fire 45-70. If I ever get some bp cowboy loads I would feel perfecty safe giving it a go.
But yeah, stear clear of the KP stuff, unless you want a wall hanger.
JTR
bonza
Member
SOG Martini .303
Yes, I bought one of the carbines about a year ago. When I recieved it & opened the box it was readily apparent it wasn't of (completely) British manufacture. The action was marked incorrectly & there were none of the usual British military markings on the rifle anywhere, & what markings it did have were very sloppily done. Also, the date on the action was way too late for the Martini, something like 1920s from memory. The barrel didn't seem to be of the correct type for the carbine either, very skinny & 'loose' in the stock. The butt-stock & forend appeared to be made of teak, definately not what you'd see on a British military rifle. In addition the lever pivot pin was missing. I sent the rifle back to SOG with a detailed explanation of why I couldn't accept the rifle & they issued a prompt refund, so I have no complaints in that regard. A few months later I was at a shoot in a different part of the state & one of the guys there had bought one of the carbines, too. It was in a very similar state to the one I had, so I'm pretty sure mine wasn't an isolated case. Unless you just want one for display I'd pass on buying one.
Yes, I bought one of the carbines about a year ago. When I recieved it & opened the box it was readily apparent it wasn't of (completely) British manufacture. The action was marked incorrectly & there were none of the usual British military markings on the rifle anywhere, & what markings it did have were very sloppily done. Also, the date on the action was way too late for the Martini, something like 1920s from memory. The barrel didn't seem to be of the correct type for the carbine either, very skinny & 'loose' in the stock. The butt-stock & forend appeared to be made of teak, definately not what you'd see on a British military rifle. In addition the lever pivot pin was missing. I sent the rifle back to SOG with a detailed explanation of why I couldn't accept the rifle & they issued a prompt refund, so I have no complaints in that regard. A few months later I was at a shoot in a different part of the state & one of the guys there had bought one of the carbines, too. It was in a very similar state to the one I had, so I'm pretty sure mine wasn't an isolated case. Unless you just want one for display I'd pass on buying one.
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