1KPerDay
Member
I have no idea if it's even possible... seems like a fun idea to me. And ammo would be cheaper. Which is insane. 
Anyone ever convert an M1 carbine to .38 special?
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Yep!
At most, you would be able to get a straight carbine mag to feed the rimmed cartridges right for just a few rounds.
Be a whole lot easier to convert one to a rimless pistol caliber.
But the bolt-face size & gas system limits it to pretty much what it already is.
rcmodel
At most, you would be able to get a straight carbine mag to feed the rimmed cartridges right for just a few rounds.
Be a whole lot easier to convert one to a rimless pistol caliber.
But the bolt-face size & gas system limits it to pretty much what it already is.
rcmodel
Dumpster Baby
Member
I have a Universal Ferret carbine clone in .256 Winchester Magnum. This is a .357 magnum case necked down to .25 caliber. The Ferret is a sporterized version of the M1 carbine, with a plain tapered barrel and a Monte Carlo stock. The Ferret has a unique 5-round plastic magazine, and the rimmed rounds have to be loaded in it with the rims stacked in front of each other for reliable feeding.
The .256 Win Mag is a kickbutt round for it's size. No one ever made a .38 Special version of a carbine. The only .38 rifles I've ever heard of are lever actions. It would be possible to buy an armload of lever actions in .38/.357 caliber for what converting an M1 carbine would cost.
The .256 Win Mag is a kickbutt round for it's size. No one ever made a .38 Special version of a carbine. The only .38 rifles I've ever heard of are lever actions. It would be possible to buy an armload of lever actions in .38/.357 caliber for what converting an M1 carbine would cost.
You can reload .30 carbine just as cheaply as .38 special. A conversion to 9 mm would probably be better as far as saving money on factory ammo goes.
I think a .30 carbine necked down to .22 or .24 caliber would be kind of neat. Perhaps you could get enough velocity to have a decent performer out to 200 yards.
I think a .30 carbine necked down to .22 or .24 caliber would be kind of neat. Perhaps you could get enough velocity to have a decent performer out to 200 yards.
JesseL
Member
Fburgtx said:
It's been done. I believe the round was called 5.7mm Johnson or .22 Spitfire.
Fergy35
Member
I think JesseL has it right. I seem to remember reading about the 5.7 Johnson somewhere in my carbine reading.
RugerBob
Member
Why would you? Taking a $600+ milsurp and sporterize it. Just my opinion but , taking a 600 dsollar gun and putting 300 into it to end up with a 3-400 dollar gun is just sacrilage. That would be like taking a 4x4 3/4 ton plow truck and putting a low rider kit on. WTH. Just my 5 cents....
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JesseL
Member
RugerBob,
Auto Ordnance is making brand new M1 carbines, so the question doesn't necessarily involve butchering a piece of history.
It would be smarter though, to just start casting and reloading .30 Carbine.
Auto Ordnance is making brand new M1 carbines, so the question doesn't necessarily involve butchering a piece of history.
It would be smarter though, to just start casting and reloading .30 Carbine.
dirtyjim
Member
s&w converted one to 40s&w for testing, it was sold at the kull supica auction a while back. there are alot of carbines out there that have aftermarket barrels on them & mixmatched parts that would be good for a project like that.
M2 Carbine
member
It was done years ago.
Called the 5.7 Johnson. I had two but lost one in a fire in 1995.
Fairly recently IAI (Houston) offered their Carbines in 5.7 Johnson.
It only requires a barrel change. It does a measured 3,000 fps from the carbine.
A case forming die as well as reloading dies are available.
I haven't shot mine in a while.
5.7 Johnson on the left. 5.7 FN and FN fired case on the right.
Seafarer12
Member
I don't know about the 5.7 but the spitfire pretty much sucked.
garyhan
Member
PO Ackley used to convert M1 carbines to .357 mag. As close as i
ve ever heard to a .38 spec. This would be a very costly proposition.
gary
ve ever heard to a .38 spec. This would be a very costly proposition.
gary
Jim Watson
Member
There was an outfit that would convert an M1 carbine to .45 Winchester Magnum.
Reading between the lines of gunzine articles, I think there was too little safety margin between a load that would function the gun and one that would damage it.
There was a conversion to what amounted to a rimless .38-40 +P. Weird.
Reading between the lines of gunzine articles, I think there was too little safety margin between a load that would function the gun and one that would damage it.
There was a conversion to what amounted to a rimless .38-40 +P. Weird.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Like said above, it will cost you no more to reload a 20 Carbine than a .357 Magnum round. Actually, you use the same powders like W296/H110 and H4227.
metrotps
Member
What about a conversion to .38 super?
cluttonfred
Member
There is only one self-loading weapon in .38 special that I am aware of... a few prototype Owen machine carbines (submachine guns) made when the Aussie were figuring out what caliber they wanted in an SMG early in WWII. The Australian War Memorial has two in their collections...note the curved magazines to handle rimmed cartridges.
1. Experimental .38 Owen Sub-machine Gun Fourth Model
2. Experimental .38 Owen Sub-machine Gun Fourth Model
About the only reason I can see for going to the trouble, and I imagine why the Aussies considered it, is if you were already issuing .38 Special revolvers as sidearms and had large stocks of .38 Special ammo on hand. You could even go with a pan-type magazine like a Degtyaryov to handle the rimmed cartridges reliably in a high cap magazine.
Unless you were in the sitation with ammo and sidearms above, why bother? Then again, it would be a fun project, so now you have me daydreaming about a little carbine-size, semi-auto version of a DP light machine gun in .38 or, better yet, .357 mag.
1. Experimental .38 Owen Sub-machine Gun Fourth Model
2. Experimental .38 Owen Sub-machine Gun Fourth Model
About the only reason I can see for going to the trouble, and I imagine why the Aussies considered it, is if you were already issuing .38 Special revolvers as sidearms and had large stocks of .38 Special ammo on hand. You could even go with a pan-type magazine like a Degtyaryov to handle the rimmed cartridges reliably in a high cap magazine.
Unless you were in the sitation with ammo and sidearms above, why bother? Then again, it would be a fun project, so now you have me daydreaming about a little carbine-size, semi-auto version of a DP light machine gun in .38 or, better yet, .357 mag.
Why not chamber it in a cartridge that is already .30 cal. Say 7.62x25 Tokarov. If it will do 1600fps from a 5" pistol barrel it ought to zip like hell from a carbine barrel. Besides the obvious chamber work, all that would then be needed is a rework of the mag. Surplus 7.62x25 is dirt cheap now and for the forseeable future.
Jim Watson
Member
Owlnmole, wouldn't you reckon those Owen prototypes were in .38 S&W (.38-200, .380 Revolver) which was the Commonwealth service caliber at the time? No reason for them to even consider .38 Special.
M2 Carbine
member
I don't remember what the accuracy was. Been years since I shot it. What I mostly did was load very cheap mil surplus fmj to shoot FA. The Carbine ran right smooth with the 5.7. I think the accuracy would depend on the quality of the barrel. I believe the round would be very accurate. I'd like to have a 5.7 barrel for my TC pistol.
I have to get the Carbine out soon.
Johnson designed the round for the 40 gr Hornet bullet using 2400 powder and claimed 3,000 FPS. I chronographed it and it does 3,000 fps from the Carbine.
The 5.7 Johnson was also called the Spitfire.
Yes, in early 1960.
The gun didn't go over well. People, including myself, couldn't see the sense in having a Carbine that shot a less powerful round.
Plus the rifle had problems. The Carbine gas system didn't work well with the less powerful round.
There was a man on THR or GT that said he had a few 5.7 Carbine barrels but I didn't ask the price.
MCgunner
Member
Well, there's a Smith and Wesson pistol that shoots only wadcutters, intended for bullseye competition. Also, there's the .357 Coonan. Rifles, well, I don't know. I do think that .38 super would maybe be the best idea for conversion.
kBob
Member
IJ certainly did make a 9x19mm M-1 Carbine. It used modified browning Hi-Power (P35) magazines which would then be not usable in the Hi-Power. Seemed sort of self defeating to me.
A freind had one of the .45 WIn Mag guns and it initially had issues. He sent it back and I have not heard if he was satisfied with the fixes. I'll e-mail him some time for an update.
I certainly heard of .38 Special conversions when I was younger, but was told they had functioning issues and low magazine capacity.
Spoke to a guy that claimed to have made a conversion to use .223 cases cut back to .357 length with a 9 mm bullet. He did have on his table a S&W N frame that had the cylinder relieved to use full moon clips he had manufactured and a clip of what appeared to such a cartidge.
Didn't Guns and Ammo magazine finance research int a 9mm cartridge based on the .223 brass cut back in the late 60's or early 70's? Called it something like the 9mm G&A or some such.
The Army looked at a .22 Carbine round that I understand was not quite a 5.7 Johnson. My understanding is that it used a 40 grain bullet as well, that the bullet was used in some of the early .222 Special loadings and that is why early AR-15s had the 1-14 twist barrels that Hornets use.
Call me an old fart, but it seems to me that the best caliber choice for an M-1 Carbine is .30 Carbine.
Wonder what it would be like to build a carbine in .25 necked .30 Carbine brass with teenie tiny .25 pills? Not that I would want one, just wondering if those .256 Ferret bullets would be useful fired from that small case.
-Bob Hollingsworth
A freind had one of the .45 WIn Mag guns and it initially had issues. He sent it back and I have not heard if he was satisfied with the fixes. I'll e-mail him some time for an update.
I certainly heard of .38 Special conversions when I was younger, but was told they had functioning issues and low magazine capacity.
Spoke to a guy that claimed to have made a conversion to use .223 cases cut back to .357 length with a 9 mm bullet. He did have on his table a S&W N frame that had the cylinder relieved to use full moon clips he had manufactured and a clip of what appeared to such a cartidge.
Didn't Guns and Ammo magazine finance research int a 9mm cartridge based on the .223 brass cut back in the late 60's or early 70's? Called it something like the 9mm G&A or some such.
The Army looked at a .22 Carbine round that I understand was not quite a 5.7 Johnson. My understanding is that it used a 40 grain bullet as well, that the bullet was used in some of the early .222 Special loadings and that is why early AR-15s had the 1-14 twist barrels that Hornets use.
Call me an old fart, but it seems to me that the best caliber choice for an M-1 Carbine is .30 Carbine.
Wonder what it would be like to build a carbine in .25 necked .30 Carbine brass with teenie tiny .25 pills? Not that I would want one, just wondering if those .256 Ferret bullets would be useful fired from that small case.
-Bob Hollingsworth
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