Anyone get what this guy is aiming at?

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Gouranga

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Read this article, came up when I was googling something:

http://www.spectacle.org/798/jethic.html

To me he comes off as an elitist, talking down to gun owners like we are children.

Seems to be going to the extreme IMO, in determining the gun owners want to shoot people at some level AND, that owning a gun changes us.

Anyway, wanted to get some thoughts from the THR group on his diatribe. In the end, I was not really sure WHAT he was trying to say.
 
I don't know if guns change us or not. I have nothing to reference to, because I've never not owned one.

As far as trying to understand this moron, stop trying. It's just someone else who wants to restrict the rights of law abiding citizens. It's typical anti BS. He claims to have no problem with hunting, but that's just them trying to hook you into believing that they're really one your side. DONT FALL FOR IT.
 
"To put it as bluntly as I can, I think that the ownership of handguns is connected in some people with a worldview which divides our fellows into categories of people who can and cannot be shot with them. An unused handgun, kept for contingencies, is an unrealized potentiality similar to scuba gear kept in the closet or an undriven jeep. Yes, I can plink at cans or take the gun to the range; I can also breathe on the scuba tank in my living room or in the swimming pool, or drive the jeep in the driveway. Humans want to use the tools they love, and the complete fulfillment of the handgun involves the killing of another human being."

I'm sorry - being a sporting man I just can't agree with that statement...
 
It just strikes me as odd. His insinuation that owning any "tool" changes you. I have bought a lot of tools. Besides allowing me to complete tasks quicker and cleaner, I would never even attempt to say they have changes my behavior or personality.

I can honestly say, I do not have nor will I ever have a desire to shoot another human being. His assumption that this is so for many gun owners, IMO is absolute garbage. Does that mean then, that if I take karate, or buy pepper spray, my entire goal in life is to somehow use it against another person?

The more I think of it, the more it semi-ticks me off. While designed to sound intellectual and intelligently thought out, he makes assumption after assumption showing his personal biases in doing so. I am not sure if there was a point to it, except, guns are bad.
 
From the article
In general, the gun advocates I have debated seem unwilling to admit that there are any ethical implications of the ownership or use of handguns. A more thorough analysis of the motives for our choices, and their consequences, will not necessarily lead us to renounce these choices. I drive my jeep in the backwoods, even though I understand the negatives and ironies of this decision.

Self-analysis should, however, lead to more responsible use of the tool than denial and willful ignorance will. A handgun owner who knows that on some level he desires to shoot someone may be less likely to.
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So by his logic, anyone who owns a fire extinguisher wants to put out fires, and someone who uses a seatbelt wants to get into a crash. Impressive powers of deduction, this man has. I know I've always wanted to know what it's like to hit a brick wall at 50mph, so I can see how well my seat belts work.


Also, this means everyone who owns a plunger, wants to unclog toilets now and then.


edit; furthermore:

If cars were considered emergency vehicles, to be kept parked in the driveway against the possibility of a disaster requiring evacuation, we would naturally long to drive them.
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I know I get a deep-rooted desire to take apart my car whenever I see a socket wrench, too.
 
I know I've always wanted to know what it's like to hit a brick wall at 50mph, so I can see how well my seat belts work.
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Classic! LOL.

I mean, I realize how insane this guys sounds...for some stupid reason I usually will try to argue with someone like this (which is stupid cause you can't rationally argue with an irrational person). Mostly I was trying to determine if he was actually making a point. I do not think he actually did. He threw out a bunch of generalizations, stated everyone on this board (or a good deal of us) secretly want to shoot someone and insists our personalities have been forever altered by having a weapon.

It's almost if he just wants to insult some gun owners, under the guise of a serious statement.
 
Humans want to use the tools they love, and the complete fulfillment of the handgun involves the killing of another human being."
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That's quite a leap. He is completely ignoring the recreational side of an object he despises and attaching some controlling fantasy to it. It is equivalent to saying that owning scuba gear makes you irrationally want to go underwater and attach limpet mines to the hulls of ships, or destroy coral reefs or what have you. You do not have to pull the trigger on a firearm to "use" it...merely having it in your posession is use in and of itself. For example, nuclear weapons were used during the Cold War...as a deterrant. Both countries tested them, experimented with them, purchased more even when they knew they would never fire them at eachother. Merely having nukes made neither side irrationally want to start a nuclear war. No, some objects do not need to fulfill their potential in order to be "used."

Edit: When I began writing this, Big Russ was the last poster, so I had not seen General Geoff and Gouranga's wise posts. Didn't mean to duplicate. :D
 
To put it as bluntly as I can, I think that the ownership of handguns is connected in some people with a worldview which divides our fellows into categories of people who can and cannot be shot with them. An unused handgun, kept for contingencies, is an unrealized potentiality similar to scuba gear kept in the closet or an undriven jeep. Yes, I can plink at cans or take the gun to the range; I can also breathe on the scuba tank in my living room or in the swimming pool, or drive the jeep in the driveway. Humans want to use the tools they love, and the complete fulfillment of the handgun involves the killing of another human being.
Wow, I really disagree with the last line of that quote. That's a pretty sick way of thinking about it IMO. I carry a jack and spare tire in my trunk but that doesn't mean I'd be disappointed to never use it. I've carried for 17 years now and I believe that if I had to use my gun to defend myself i would. Nothing about that scenario would be pleasurable though.
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"Why do I want this? What will I use it for? What will I become through the use of it?"
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I admit that I kind of agree to that statement. I wish that some of the folks I speak with were more in tune with their maturity and temperment. These are the same folks who I'd worry about buying a motorcycle or a SUV. I wouldn't try and make it so they can't though.
 
Just more psyco-babble.

“Humans want to use the tools they love, and the complete fulfillment of the handgun involves the killing of another human being.”
“A handgun owner who knows that on some level he desires to shoot someone may be less likely to.”

I just like guns and shooting. I like fishing gear and fishing. I like old Jeeps and off roading.
 
His entire argument is to deny human nature and history . Some caveman looked at his options and decided to find a larger rock . We have been defending ourselves ever since . It is only in the last century that some people , uncomfortable with their own ability to defend themselves and their families have taken to rationalizing their fear by trying to limit other peoples ability to defend themselves , thereby dumbing down every one and making themselves to appear noble in the face of danger , when in reality , they are simply trying to appear less afraid. unfortunately , being a jackass , while annoying , is not against the law. Yet.
 
It's clear to me this person is a victim of specialization. When given a tool (his example dBase) that tool becomes his do all and be all. No doubt in my mind he also speaks of 'thinking outside the box' all the while not aware that he is trapped in the box of his own construction.
 
It is only in the last century that some people , uncomfortable with their own ability to defend themselves and their families have taken to rationalizing their fear by trying to limit other peoples ability to defend themselves , thereby dumbing down every one and making themselves to appear noble in the face of danger , when in reality , they are simply trying to appear less afraid.
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It's not their fault; it is an extension of what society teaches. Historically, disarmament has been at the behest of tyrants, who wish to have more compliant subjects who cannot effectively fight back. In the 20th century, would-be tyrants have taken to propaganda as a way to trick people into thinking disarmament is a good thing, so they may later on control them more effectively.
 
Until I was in my early 30's did I look at firarms as anything more then a tool for hunting. Sense then I look at both rifles, shotguns and hand guns as more of tools to hunt, survive and defend myself and loved ones...
 
Merely having nukes made neither side irrationally want to start a nuclear war.
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This is a good analogy. We spend a great deal of money on our nation's nuclear arsenal and we hope to never have to use it. We are not fulfilled in some way if we launch a nuke at someone.

It is apparent, however, there are many different kinds of gun owners. Not on a list from "good" to "bad," but more like different slices in a pie chart that adds up to a complete picture. Do some gun owners privately wish for a chance to end a stick-up like De Niro in Taxi Driver? Probably. And there are guards, hunters, ranchers, 'tacticool' hobbyists, collectors, and more. Some may be responding to a very specific threat, like the woman who arms herself due to a rapist on the loose in her city, or in response to a vengeful ex who threatens to kill her and the children.

And there are other types, such as martial artists who train and practice with weapons for various reasons, and owners who are combinations of all the types mentioned. Wallace's analysis in his essay falls short of grasping the range of persons he describes. In one point, he is correct: "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." Everyone should have a tool box that allows for approaching jobs from multiple angles.
 
the complete fulfillment of the handgun involves the killing of another human being.
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There it is, plain and simple. What's he's saying is that people who have guns WANT to kill someone else, to one degree or another, because the gun gives them the ability to.

This goes to the "Ma'm, just because I'm equipped to be a rapist doesn't mean I am one any more than you're being equipped to be a prostitute means you must be one." Just because a gun can be used to murder other people doesn't mean that it makes people murder other people.
 
He claims to have no problem with hunting
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He DOES have a problem with self-defense, which means he has NO problem with robbery, rape, gaybashing, lynching, and murder in general.

Anyone who believes that you have no right to effective self-defense believes that you have a duty to be murdered.
 
Anyone who believes that you have no right to effective self-defense believes that you have a duty to be murdered.
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This is an interesting insight, that appears correct.

A person may deny themselves this right if they believe it so for a religious purpose, but to deny it to all others is to deny them their natural choice in the matter.
 
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To put it as bluntly as I can, I think that the ownership of handguns is connected in some people with a worldview which divides our fellows into categories of people who can and cannot be shot with them. An unused handgun, kept for contingencies, is an unrealized potentiality similar to scuba gear kept in the closet or an undriven jeep. Yes, I can plink at cans or take the gun to the range; I can also breathe on the scuba tank in my living room or in the swimming pool, or drive the jeep in the driveway. Humans want to use the tools they love, and the complete fulfillment of the handgun involves the killing of another human being
Click to expand...
A handgun owner who knows that on some level he desires to shoot someone may be less likely to.
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This guy sounds like he has some deep seated issues!
 
This guy needs a class in logic. He makes all kinds of assumptions and tries to present them as well thought out arguments when he's really jumping from one assumption/conclusion to another without providing any logical rationale for them. 2+2 does not=5.
 
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