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Anyone loading the 327 Federal Magnum? Need a lead bullet. MBC Brad???.

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Rule3, Sep 10, 2011.

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  1. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    I looked at MBC and they have a 100 gr .313 diam 32 cal bullet, Their Cowboy #6. Only it is the soft alloy 12 BHN

    They have a 32-30 rifle bullet 120 gr in the hard alloy but not sure if the bullet is to long?

    I sent a e mail to MBC

    Anyone else loading this??
     
  2. MMCSRET

    MMCSRET Member

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    I cast and load the Lyman 311316. It is a 115 grain gas checked boolit, I size it to .313 and load it over A#9 for a really fine performing round. I don't know who is making a boolit that duplicates it except Cast Performance, and they are very pricey!!!!
     
  3. Galil5.56

    Galil5.56 Member

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    Easy, Mastercastbullets.com

    http://www.mastercastbullets.com/productpricelist.html

    Way, way less cost than the competition ($40/1000), fair, no gouge shipping (will send in less expensive small flat rate box when able), best warranty, and the best, no BS sample program. Both mastercasts have been very good to me over the decades for bullets I don't already cast, or when I'm feeling lazy... Might give them a try.
     
  4. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Thanks.
    I have not used their bullets but sure will give them a try if their 32 cal, 100 gr RNFP is a hard alloy.
     
  5. Galil5.56

    Galil5.56 Member

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    Welcome.

    Unless I am mistaken, the "hard cast" version are 20 BHN, and the other alloy used for select .38 and .45 cal is 14 BHN. The .32 cal bullets you mention would be 20 BHN.

    http://www.mastercastbullets.com/home.html

    From my own personal experience with the "hard cast" version, they perform well, and leading is practically non existent concerning the guns and loads I have used, and accuracy is stellar. Sizing is spot on, weights very consistent, no wrinkles/malformed bases, and the lube stays put/no missing lube, and is not the rock hard "Crayola" type. Really good stuff in my experience, and the owner is a pleasure to deal with.
     
  6. Super.45

    Super.45 Member

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    +1 for Mastercast. Mike is one of the three suppliers that I use for quality cast bullets. His 9mm's perform flawlessly in my guns. He is a straight arrow guy to deal without joking you off.
     
  7. oldfortyfiveauto

    oldfortyfiveauto Member

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    I've been loading with trail boss and whatever cast I can get cheap. Pretty much any thing in the 32/327 shoots well.
     
  8. Quoheleth

    Quoheleth Member

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    Might be worth asking Brad if he can run a batch of that 100 gr .313 bullet in 18bhn. He might - but then again, he might not be able to right now. I know they're moving around as fast as a long-tailed cat at a rocking chair contest. Not speaking for him; just offering an idea.

    Q
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  9. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    I have been using MBC bullets in about every pistol caliber there is. They have excellent quality, great customer service and the fastest shipping around. I did send Brad a e mail about possibly running a batch with the harder alloy. I can not say enough good things about MBC.
     
  10. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    As soon as I saw the reviews for the new 327 magnum I wanted one. But I waited so I could see what issues if any would surface and the only one I've noticed is availability of brass. I talked to a guy the other day in SWH and he has been searching every where for brass and can't locate any. I guess that one isn't really too popular? Can't find any factory ammo for it either. Bummer, glad I didn't buy one though.
     
  11. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    As for 327 brass, Midway USA has Federal brass listed as "Coming Soon". You can put yourself on the email notification list. HERE is the link...

    I'm sure Starline will produce some soon. (well, if there's enough interest I guess)
     
  12. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

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    <deleted>

    No secret, but a history.

    From my perspective and opinion, I think it is the case of reloaders who found a new manufacturer of lead bullets who placed customer service and timely product delivery as their highest business priority that many THR members come to appreciate and embrace.

    Their relationship has been documented in a thread that spans 11 thread pages, 268 responses and over 25,000+ views - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=441173

    When my local bullet caster retired, I tried out various commercial lead bullet suppliers. I learned of Missouri Bullet Company here on THR and since also became a customer.

    So, no secret. Just a company that happened to have a happy and loyal following ... and protective of their supplier.

    Sorry for detracting the thread ... back to OP. :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2011
  13. evan price

    evan price Member

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    The purpose of tin in a bullet alloy is twofold. One, it makes the alloy flow better when liquified and that helps it take up the small crisp details of the mold when solidified. Two, it to an extent toughens the metal somewhat.

    The primary hardening agents in bullet alloy are antimony and arsenic. Small amounts of arsenic will make heat treating more efficient.

    Anything more than 2% tin in an alloy is totally unnecessary and an expense with no gain. In fact, as long as your molds will allow it, straight clip wheel weight alloy (with maybe a max of around 0.5% tin in my experience) may cast just fine and produce a good bullet.

    With regard to 'virgin' alloy- just what the heck does it mean? That this batch of lead was mined and the ore was smelted and it was never touched by human hands in the meantime? To be frank, most sources for lead are from scrap recovery. The element Pb doesn't break down except to oxidize or combine with other elements, when smelted and purified it doesn't matter how many times previously it has been molded into something. The steel in your automobile ('Virgin'?) has been who knows how many things in the past. Smelting processes can remove contaminant metals by breaking down and removing the impurities to result in pure lead.

    'Certified' alloys means only that the alloy has been tested and found to contain a specific blend of metals and a minimal allowable level of certain 'contaminants' such as copper, zinc, calcium, etc. There is an industry specification for purity standards for refining smelted alloys. Assuming that the metal is purchased from a respectable foundry, and the specification for the alloy is given to conform to the standard, it will be an acceptable alloy for bullet making.

    All 'certification' means is that a sample of the pour was tested by the lab and found to conform to the industry specifications for the type of alloy ordered.

    So words like "Virgin Alloy" and "Certified Metal" are really just about as useful as "Spring Water" or "Jumbo Shrimp". They are great feel-good advertising words but really don't mean a thing in and of themselves.

    If you want to see the writeup of the process, here's a company in India which gives a general description of their process.

    http://www.gravitaindia.com/


    In my experience most casters make bullets too hard. For higher velocity bullets such as the Magnums (1400 fps or thereabouts) you need maybe 18bhn max and a properly sized and lubed bullet. Superhard alloys of 20+bhn really aren't the solution to leading.

    The 327 has enough case capacity that you can use a 32-20 rifle bullet as long as you work up the load from a mid-range starting point. Sizing around .313-.314 will work just fine.

    I cast the Lee 311-93-1R and it drops about .314" with my alloy of scrap. I load it in everything from 32 auto, 32 short, long and H&R Mag and 7.62 Nagant. It works just fine in everything and I only use ALOX tumble-lube.

    As far as brass goes- good luck finding some. I sell thousands of pounds of brass and all I've ever found was about 150 of them over a couple years. They sold quick, too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2011
  14. oldfortyfiveauto

    oldfortyfiveauto Member

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    Freedom Arms usually has Federal 327 primed brass.

    PB Blocker from Dillon usually stop most leading on all MILD loads very well with pretty much any cast alloy.
     
  15. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    [MOD TALK: "The problem is that there is a history of competitors registering new accounts on various message boards, including this one, specifically to badmouth MBC."

    Yes, and it happened again. Certain vendors lower themselves to character assassination and violating our rules by multiple shell registrations for the purpose of hurting their competition. We've removed that member (again) and cleaned up the mess he made. Carry on, and thanks for the vigilance in helping us spot him].
     
  16. MissouriBullet

    MissouriBullet Member

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    Evan, I respectively disagree with this. Bullets made of alloy produced from a batch that was certified by the metallurgical laboratory, means that you know what's in it and to what degree. You know exactly how much sB, sN, and pB is in there because those percentages are stated on the certification sheet, along with the other trace ingredients. There are lots of cast bullets being sold out there made from wheelweights and other metal scrap sources that are melted in dutch ovens heated over propane heaters. That alloy is assuredly NOT "certified analysis alloy" and will vary from lot to lot with respect both to the relative constituent elements and the hardness, which will actually be about 12, unless it's water-quenched and has cured (aged) long enough to stabilize.

    We pay big bucks for our alloy and it's all certified because I think it's important. The customer knows what he's getting and I believe he deserves to.

    Brad
     
  17. snuffy

    snuffy Member

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    Area in bold is incorrect. Lead that has alloyed with tin and antimony are a solution. It cannot be purified OR separated. The term VIRGIN means that pure lead, pure tin, and antimony are alloyed at a foundry or at the mine when the lead is smelted. Some means of weighing or establishing ratio and proportion is used to get the correct percentages of metals. Antimony is rather difficult to get into the alloy. A special flux has to be used.
     
  18. evan price

    evan price Member

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    @ Snuffy:

    I respectfully disagree with you sir, these elements are required to be removed from the lead before it can be considered pure lead.

    http://www.gravitaexim.com/Lead-Metal/Lead-Refining-Solutions.html
    (This is a quick reference available on-line for a source.)

    While this process is above and beyond the capabilities of the home or general commercial caster, these processes are what industrial lead smelters/refiners do on a daily basis to obtain pure lead.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  19. evan price

    evan price Member

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    @ Brad: (First let me say I am not a competitor, someone who sells bullets, or trying to bash MBC in any way)

    Again, respectfully right back at you, the certification process used to produce bullet casting alloy is far below the standards needed to produce truly lab-quality alloys. The standards for error in the proportions are much looser than what the use of the word "certified" might make one believe. I'm not saying your alloy isn't certified, merely that by using words like "virgin alloy" and "certified purity" or whatever choice of words used, does not mean much except that you have a uniform and proper alloy that meets the specification given to the foundry, IE, 92.6.2 hardball alloy.

    I agree with you that using fresh foundry alloy will make more consistent bullets than some guy using random scrap in his backyard who cannot get any consistency lot-to-lot of his bullets.

    These are bullets, not parts of a telescope or a satellite or a medical device. If you have a .01% or .10% contamination of Cu it won't really matter in the long run.

    As to virgin alloy, it is my contention that this phrase is being mis-used in the bullet industry to indicate an alloy source that is directly from the foundry in new ingots as opposed to being sourced from random piles of junk lead out of the local scrap dealer and melted down by the caster.
     
  20. snuffy

    snuffy Member

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    The fact that some process can be done in an industrial setting has no relation to us casting lead bullets. That is what I was referring to in my post. That process seams like it would be terribly expensive, why not just get pure lead right from the smelter at the mine? All that energy and special chemicals just to get what's available at the smelter.

    I saw a "how it's made" segment last week on tv. It was about a lead mine in Missouri. Hey Brad, is that why you located in Missouri? To be close to the smelter? They go more than a thousand feet straight down to get to the galena ore.
     
  21. evan price

    evan price Member

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    @ snuffy:

    The elements most commonly mined are Galena which is lead sulphide. To remove the sulpher from the galena to get lead requires refining and smelting processes also. Galena is also usually found contaminated with trace amounts of zinc, copper, tin, and other elements. The galena ore has to be processed almost as much as the reclaimed scrap lead. I believe I saw on a battery recycling episode of "How It's Made" that 50% of lead used in industry nowadays is from recycled/refined scrap and 50% is mined.

    I realize these processes are far beyond the home caster; I was just defending my statement that Sn, Sb, Cu, Zn, etc can all be removed from Pb to make pure lead (What you highlighted in bold in my post.)
     
  22. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    OK Guys, this is all very interesting but has nothing to do with my initial thread and question.

    So if you wish to discuss the nuances of Virgin lead, please go to the Metallurgy Department.:rolleyes:
     
  23. TonyT

    TonyT Member

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    I have loaded the 327 H&R using either the old Lyman #3118 115 gr. lead plain base bullet or a commercial cast 90 gr. bullet with Trail Boss powder. The Hodgdon data in the cowboy load section has plenty of data. The Alliant 2005 manual also had some data for that caliber.
     
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