anyone with an older Browning safe......

[tg_26101]

My Father-in-law has an older Browning safe (25 years old approximately) that I can't get open. He has a newer safe with an S&G lock that works exactly like my safe at home, and I can get it open without problems. I've tried using the same drill on the Browning, but am doing something wrong, because it doesn't open.

I've tried the usual tricks, like cheating back a half digit to account for wear in the lock, and every other thing I or my wife can think of, but still no luck. The combination he's written down is from back when it was new, so I'm pretty sure it should be accurate (also the combination for the other safe on the same piece of paper worked first try). My Father-in-law is 87 years old, and not much assistance, as he can't remember how to open it (this is how I got involved in the first place), and it's really upsetting him about our inability to open the safe.

Any special tricks or ideas on an older Browning safe will be appreciated before we call the locksmith and destroy the lock. Thanks.

tg

 

[HankB]

If you're confident the combination is correct, try varying the number of turns past each number before settling on it & turning the dial back the other way.

If you've been entering the first number by spinning the dial left, try spinning it to the right.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Try going one number further in the direction the knob is turned each time rather than just subtracting- our Browning is 12 years old but has been opened and closed a lot, and the combination 'slipped' a little with use. It may be that only one number has slipped, so it may take some time to experiment.

Try and find a 'safe man' if you have to yell for help. With any luck he can work out the problem without damaging the lock.

hth,

lpl/nc

 

[kbarrett]

Turn the dial at least 5 turns counter clockwise.

count carefully the number of turns ... second number requires you to pass it two times going clockwise. third number requires you to pass it once counter clockwise.

Then turn clockwise to 95 and open.

once you have determined that you are doing the correct number of turns, then try numbers one too far. If off numbers work, then get a locksmith to bring an S & G setting key and reset the combination ( using one requires the door to be open, of course .... ).

 

[a1abdj]

Four times left (counter clockwise) to first number, stopping at the 4th appearance on the top reference mark.

Three times right (clockwise) to second number

Two times left (counter clockwise) to third number

One time right until dial engages lock and stops (somewhere 85-90ish)

If that doesn't work, try adding and subtracting numbers. If your combo is 40-80-20, then try 41-81-21, 42-82-22, 39-79-19, and 38-78-18. Even through normal wear, your numbers shouldn't be off more than 2 numbers in either direction.

If that doesn't work, then either your combination is incorrect, or something is wrong with the lock. In either case, you will need a locksmith who specializes in safes. Even if you do get it open yourself, then you should still have a locksmith take a look at it.

Safes should be serviced by a locksmith every couple of years. They are mechanical devices which wear and need lubrication. This is normally not a do it yourself job.

If you can't get it open yourself, let me know and I will refer you to a tech in your area.

 

[tg_26101]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I see the problem; with my safe, and his other safe, the knob is turned to the RIGHT (clockwise) to clear and set the first number. I've gotten a couple replies that tell me to start left (counter clockwise). This is a real "DOH" Homer type moment; I hadn't thought of trying it in reverse to what I'm accustomed. I'll give it a shot tomorrow.

tg

 

[sm]

Good advice already.

I would find a quality safe guy anyway to check out any maintenence this safe may need from age, even if you do open it.

Another "loudest click" one never wants to hear, is that of a pin in a S&G going click due to age and wear. BTDT and babysat with the safe with loaded guns...door was at the safe guys shop getting a new S&G and other innards. This safe was 6' x 5'...older than me, older than my boss and heavy double doors.

Ask Grandpa a really simple question, did he ever use a favorite number?

Some old safe guys used to re-set the combo to new owners request. One old boss liked to use 13 in a code of sorts we used. We had a starting number, and each number thereafter was a subtraction of 13 [ i.e. 90-77-64-51].

Grandpa ,like many older folks may have used this system, it was use to record bank accts, and before internet, one could send an acct number via mail or over phone, still noone listening on a party line or switchboard would know the subtraction number.

I have reopend safes folks bought from folks I knew, using this, and being able to use the codes we used...old system, still secure. No I cannot share.

 

[Nortonics]

Man, I remember playing that mechanical lock game with all the store owners when I was looking for a good safe. Less than 50% of the time could we manage to get these things opened because of all the odd twists and turns that varied between all the manufactures and models. And even when we knew the proper sequence, there was still a great chance you'd not get it right until about the third or forth try.

Thank God for electronic keypads! I couldn't imagine owning a large floor standing safe with anything but...

 

[Car Knocker]

What do you do when the circuit board fries itself?

 

[Nortonics]

I call the Cannon safes factory and they come out and fix it for free, for a lifetime. Even if it goes through a fire, falls two stories into the basement onto solid cement - they bring out a fully new safe, open mine, allow me to transfer the contents, and they take away the old safe - again, free, for a lifetime.

 

[sm]

The most secure safes I use/used, did not have dials.

Required 3 or 4 of us to be present with our own special key. Then we left. We were to never be together except to open that safe. We could not travel in the same conveyance , never stay at the same hotel, never dine together.

We used dials in conjuction with special keys.
We used dial only ones as well.

Keypad only, was a huge No-No , in fact the Insurance Company would not provide coverage for us and for we used them for.

For Alarms, we eventually went to keypad to a degree. We had multiple "fail safe plans", we kept the old ones in works...
Keypad alarm allowed us to punch in a code to tell alarm company we were in trouble...like being at gunpoint and forced to turn off, and enter safe.

Only problem was, we used time-locks on safes. Either the BGs would have to believe us, wait for time-lock to allow access, or worse. Other concern was family being held hostage while one of us forced to open.

Hence the reason low profile, keep mouth shut, awarness, and all.

I have broken into a keypad safe in less than 2minutes. I and others prefer not to use keypads.

 

[Nortonics]

What does it mean on the Cannon web site about their Cannon series of safes when they write:

"High Security Door: Mechanical Group 2 lock with key-locking dial"
and
"Options: Type 1 high-security electronic lock"

What's up with the "groups" and "types"?

They make it seem that the "option" which certainly costs more is the more secure and desired way to go.

 

[a1abdj]

Group 2 and Group 1 are ratings used by UL to determine different levels of manipulation on locks.

A Group 1 lock (can be mechanical or electronic) is more resistant to covert manupulation than a Group 2 (mechanical only) lock.

Electronic locks achieve the Group 1 designation through the ability to lock themselves out for a period after a number of incorrect combination tries.

The types of electronic locks found on gun safes cost more than the types of mechanical locks used on gun safes...which is why they charge more for that option.

Historically, anything electronic will have a higher failure rate than its mechanical counterpart. If you have problems dialing a mechanical lock, or need fast entry, then electronic locks may work for you. If you want something reliable that will last 100 years with periodic maintenance, then a mechanical lock is the way to go.

If any lock malfunctions, it usually means that the drill is coming out. This is one of the reasons periodic maintenance by a locksmith who specializes in safes is important. It's usually cheaper to prevent the problem, than to drill the safe open after the fact.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe Cannon or any other company offers a lifetime warranty on wearable parts (which includes locks), but rather offer a "warranty" for fire, flood, or break in. In reality, fires, floods, and break ins are covered by your homeowners policy. In most cases, when we've replaced a safe after any of these events, the check came from an insurance company, and not a safe manufacturer.

 

[Nortonics]

Thanks for that A1!

I was gonna' say, there is no way anybody could get into my safe within two minutes by fiddling with the keypad (as in trying to guess). I'd bet anybody $500 they couldn't do it in two days! Again, that's making guesses at the combo. Heck, I'd even give ya a week... But then again I just might change the combo on ya midway through too - can't do that too easily with a dial safe now can ya?!

As far as the 100% full lifetime warranty for any purpose, just check their web site:

Cannon Safes - About Us

We believe you should have real security at an affordable price, quality in all aspects of the product, as well as a lifetime warranty that means you are actually protected from fire, flood, attempted break-in, break-in and manufacturing defects. As a Cannon Safe owner, you also have access to knowledgeable service technicians with the authority to fix any Cannon Safe issue on the spot.

Ya got a point - they don't actually say anything about normal wear & tear, but to me, if the keypad breaks and stops working electronically isn't that a manufacturing defect? Arguable for sure. But I'd bet that Cannon would still do it for free - they have a reputation of doing so from what I've read in the past. Heck - if worse comes to worse ya take a hammer and ping it once right in the face and call it attempted robbery - problem solved. Obviously we wouldn't do that, and I think Cannon wouldn't either.

P.S. - found this splurb on the site too: "Electronic Lock - The Type 1 electronic lock uses the same technology found on ATM machines and provides more protection against manipulation than any mechanical lock on the market."

 

[campnorton]

Older Browning Safe

I have a Browning safe that is about the same age as yours. I am the original owner and know the combination well. The past few years the safe was getting difficult to open. Once I got to the last number I would have to twist the dial slightly back and forth before the wheel would finally engage and I could open the safe. It would take several attempts before I was able to open the safe. It kept taking more and more tries to open. On one occasion when I had the safe open I decided to tear into it to find out what the problem was. What I found sound like it could be the same problem you are having. I'll try to explain, There are four wheels inside the locking device. First number you turn the dial at least three times counter clockwise stopping on your first number. Second number clockwise and stop on your number the third time. The third number counterclockwise and stop on your number the second time. Last number clockwise and stop the first time. When you do this obviously the wheels inside the safe should be lined up to open. Here is what I found in mine. Once the wheels were lined up there is a spring loaded lever that is supposed to move up and catch the last wheel and pull the locking mechanisim back. My spring had gotten so weak it would no longer lift the latch up to catch the wheel. I replaced the spring and it worked like a brand new safe. When at the lock shop purchasing the spring the locksmith told me he had seen this style of lock before do the same thing and in his case the lever did not come up when he jiggled the wheel. He ended up turning the safe upside down. I know it sound strange, I'm not sure I would flip my safe upside down but the jiggle or slightly spinning the dial back and forth on the last number might work. If the spring has any strength left it may lift the lever. Good luck I hope you get it open.