AP for M1

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hapidogbreath

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I managed to find some bullets to reload but found out they are old AP rounds. Took on apart because it looked way too long to only weigh 152 GR. Did weigh several and they are very inconsistent 152 down to 147. The bullets also have 2 cannelures. What would be a starting place for a charge of 4895. With my 150 rounds I'm at 46 grs. I know that would be a compressed charge with the long bullet. Any ideas???
 
Like starting again with any new bullet configuration, you should probably just back off to a lower charge and run tests to find where you want it.

don’t expect very good accuracy with those
 
That doesn't look like a 30-06 AP bullet at all. Those that I've seen are square base 164 grn. Maybe it's from .308. Did you cut one open? Is it magnetic?
 
I did cut it open and I has a magnetic steel core that is very hard. I read that AP used a tungsten core.... or maybe it was an old news real... in the M1 AP round. I thought tungsten was non-magnetic.
 
Never thought to go on GB to look. From what I see there I got some 150 GR M61 AP bullets. Question is do I waste the time to work up a load for them or dump them and buy some regular.
If you also reload for 7.62NATO then save them for that and buy some FMJ for the Garand. If not then set them aside like Walkalong says as future trade fodder or for when nothing else is available. Have you mic’d them for OD and OAL yet? How many do you have? It will help to tag them for future reference. Trust me, relying on memory is a bad idea.
 
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It sounds like you got a mix of FN and Israeli AP.

They look very similar, but if you line the bullets up base down on a flat surface and inspect closely, you can see the difference. The Israeli bullets are slightly longer and heavier.

The FN bullets usually weigh 146.5 to 148 grains and the IMI are usually between 150.5 and 152.5. (I may have that backwards, I'm working from memory, not notes).

None of them are tungsten or tungsten carbide cored any more than US M2 AP was.

Tungsten is 1.7 times heavier than lead by volume and if used will tend to make the resulting bullets shorter rather than longer.

The steel alloy the cores are made of may contain some tungsten as a hardening/toughening agent like early M2 AP, but that doesn't equate to an actual tungsten core.

I'm fairly certain you don't have US M61 projectiles. M61 is pretty rare, besides it has a single cannalure, not the duel cannalure you show in your picture.
Various AP Armor Piercing Ammo Bullets & Penetrators.png
 
It sounds like you got a mix of FN and Israeli AP.

They look very similar, but if you line the bullets up base down on a flat surface and inspect closely, you can see the difference. The Israeli bullets are slightly longer and heavier.

The FN bullets usually weigh 146.5 to 148 grains and the IMI are usually between 150.5 and 152.5. (I may have that backwards, I'm working from memory, not notes).

None of them are tungsten or tungsten carbide cored any more than US M2 AP was.

Tungsten is 1.7 times heavier than lead by volume and if used will tend to make the resulting bullets shorter rather than longer.

The steel alloy the cores are made of may contain some tungsten as a hardening/toughening agent like early M2 AP, but that doesn't equate to an actual tungsten core.

I'm fairly certain you don't have US M61 projectiles. M61 is pretty rare, besides it has a single cannalure, not the duel cannalure you show in your picture.
View attachment 981166

Mine look like # 3 When taken apart. Thanks for the info. I like things with picture... It's a Marine thing.
 
I managed to find some bullets to reload but found out they are old AP rounds. Took on apart because it looked way too long to only weigh 152 GR. Did weigh several and they are very inconsistent 152 down to 147. The bullets also have 2 cannelures. What would be a starting place for a charge of 4895. With my 150 rounds I'm at 46 grs. I know that would be a compressed charge with the long bullet. Any ideas???
Hey, I was interested…. Did you ever work up a load for it?
 
Never thought to go on GB to look. From what I see there I got some 150 GR M61 AP bullets. Question is do I waste the time to work up a load for them or dump them and buy some regular.

Send them to me ... I'll dispose of them for you. ;) I have a couple of M1As that love to eat those things.

The guys over at the M14 Forum have plenty of 4895 recipes for those.
 
H, IMR or RG? Or all of the above?

Oh all of the above. They're all fine for carefully gassing my M1As. There was a great article some years ago, maybe twenty years ago or so or longer on the old UseNet, about handloading for the M1a and it was so comprehensive ... it covered all the 4895s including the recipe the Portuguese and Spanish were using (I forget the title designator they used) but in that general weight, the 147-155 weight class of projectiles, some used-to argue that the 4895s were ideal in x51 ... although, of course, it was the original military ball (as in 7.62 fmj, not ball powder) 30-06 propellant of choice.

Bruce Hogdon's first powder, if the story serves me correctly that I read some years ago in a Handloaders Digest (I'll try to find that later today) .... his first powder, H4895, was a knockoff of the military government exteuded 4895 that he was selling as surplus powder when he opened his business. That was the old Dupont version which I used to use, which later became extreme extruded IMR 4895 and so on. The 16 pounds of Radway Green I'm going-through now, military surplus, is the NATO version of course and was the last of the surplus 4895 that came out of their old Radway Green facility in England which is where I suspect those old tungsten AP rounds were pulled that the OP shared with us. Or they may have been pulled here somewhere as millions of those rounds were demilled in the 90s both here and there. Those were loaded in x51, using this Radway Green RG 4895 that I have, in the 70s, probably late 70s or so before that plant was shut down and retooled.

I cannot remember whether I picked up all of this RG 4895 from Jamin when he was selling surplus powder and bullets out of his house (before he started PSA) or whether I bought it at Widener's back in the day while I was up at our mountain home in Johnson City ... I think it was Widener's and I paid maybe $40 bucks a keg for it. I had four 8 pd kegs and I'm down to two now ... been trying to work-up a 45-70 load using some of it because I know this powder has to be pushing 40-50 years old but it's still going strong.

Anyways, I've used so much RG 4895 and those old pulled AP pills ... back in the day we would go to the back forty in this old abandoned junkyard and shoot engine blocks with the stuff before they sold all those junkers for scrap to China. LOL, I always wondered what some China scrap dealer would think when he saw those blocks full of what were obviously bullet holes . (Engines were always pulled before the shells were crushed - stripped and drained engines went out whole, by rail, to the west coast).

Those Chinamen probably imagined some hollywood gangsta street war taking place and the engines being shot full of holes. What they failed to realize, I can almost guarantee, is that it was simply good old Southern Boys exercising our 2A rights in a massive remote country junkyard full of yotes, feral dogs and rattle snakes ... all of them using the old cars and trucks as breeding dens.

I'd love to get my hands on some more of those projectiles. Wish I had held onto some of them back then. Like those old green box tuna-can Norinco steel penetrators from China in x39 .... good gosh they were a nickle a piece back in the day, loaded, steel cased!

Who could have ever imagined things would be where we are today.

But yeah Geo ... this RG 4895 is perfect for those. All we used to do was basically reassemble them inside our own FC surplus brass we were getting from Top Brass with #34s already seated.

Amazing times ... hindsight is so 20-20.
 
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