AR-15 build, need some help

[trickyasafox]

okay guys i kinda want a AR-15 style rifle. over the next few months, i wanted to semi build it. i say semi build because i was going to buy a complete upper, as it seems you need more tooling then i have to assemble a complete upper. i was going to use my C&R to get some pretty significant discounts from midway (like oh so many others here im sure)

i should probably tell you what i want to do with this carbine: im not really sure if i should get a 16 or a 20 inch, so feel free to offer opinions on that as well. i would like to use it to a max of about 330 (odd number, but farthest my range offers) yards maybe with an occasional hailmary a bit farther at woodchucks. overall mainly a fun gun i guess, , and eventually i would like to scope it, but i really want to get some irons work in. i was thinking flat top, but i want it to be relatively light as well. im not sure if i can get a light weight 20 in upper, but hey i can hope in my ignorance.

heres what i was wondering, is DPMS a solid brand? i was going to use their upper and lower parts kit, but i would really value your opinions.

here is the uppers i was thinking about:
16in: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=244414
ps why does this one cost so much more?: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=529541

20in: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=120468
not sure about this one, im not sure if stainless is for me, : http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=496810

the first 16 in is only 355 with dealer pricing, the second is 430ish what am i missing that justifies that difference?

also, i was unsure what lower to get, i saw these guys: http://www.essentialarms.com/forged lower receiver.htm only 77 for a lower. i was thinking that or a stag arms lower, iffin i can find one. any better suggestions are deeply appreciated, and hey if your in upstate NY and have a gutted lower you want to unload LMK Smiley

also as far as stocks go i thought maybe this: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=760499

i would want a 6 position colapsable, or maybe even a 4 (any reason not to go with a 4 like this one: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=911279)

one more thing, would i need to buy a buffer and spring seperately if i went with the first stock? it didnt say one way or the other that i saw if they are included.

again i apologize for so many questions, but i appreciate any advice you guys have to offer. also, i think i'll need a stock back irons sight, do any of them come with one? does anyone recommend any specifically?

 

[lycanthrope]

I'll make this as easy as I can....

Yes, DPMS makes a quality product.

16" or 20" is a matter of preference and won't make a matter of accuracy assuming both barrels are of the same quality (although shorter barrels are stiffer). You will lose 100 fps or so with the shorter barrel.

Never used an Essential Arms lower. Stags are first rate and are my preference.

Stainless is fine as is chrome moly. Chrome lined barrels are not generally as accurate as the previous two, but easier to clean and a bit less prone to wear in bad environments.

You'll need a buffer and spring for that stock. Standard A2 style.

I like the A.R.M.S style back up irons, but you can get detacheable A2 style for more precision work and even a barrel mounted globe front sight.

 

[g56]

here is the uppers i was thinking about:
16in: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=244414
ps why does this one cost so much more?: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=529541

The first one is the DPMS LoPro, their cheapie slick side receiver without a forward assist, ejection port cover or shell deflector, if you want a 'real AR', that ain't the one!

Here's a lower for you complete with stock, I've done business with Eagle Firearms several times, they are a first class operation!

Stag Arms M4 Lower 1/2 - with 6 Position Stock $225
http://www.eaglefirearms.net/stag_arms.htm

 

[ARperson]

One thing about the comment regarding the accuracy difference between chromed lined barrels: the difference in accuracy between chromed and non-chromed barrels is typically less than the average shooter with irons. In other words, the only shooters who really benefit from the smaller difference in accuracy between chromed and non-chromed barrels are competition shooters where fractions of a millimeter are the standards instead of fractions of an inch.

As a general shooter, you will probably not notice any difference in accuracy in the chromed vs. non-chromed barrels. Most of us just don't shoot THAT well.

 

[lycanthrope]

I don't consider that entirely true. At most CMP Service Rifle matches I don't see anyone using a chrome lined barrel and there are plenty of shooters that can shoot groups under 2 moa with iron sights. Scoping the gun and shooting varmints out past 300 as the orginal poster intends would dictate stacking the deck in terms of accuracy as much as possible.

 

[army_eod]

All the above looks like sound advice. Also visit ar15.com

Here is what I ended up with.



RRA Entry Carbine with LaRue Tactical BUIS and YHM EOTech riser. But I just today replaced it with a FAR superior LaRue Tac EOTech riser. LaRue is worth every penny.

 

[swingset]

originally posted by lycanthrope:
I don't consider that entirely true. At most CMP Service Rifle matches I don't see anyone using a chrome lined barrel and there are plenty of shooters that can shoot groups under 2 moa with iron sights.

You should re-read what ARperson said:

In other words, the only shooters who really benefit from the smaller difference in accuracy between chromed and non-chromed barrels are competition shooters where fractions of a millimeter are the standards instead of fractions of an inch.

You're disagreeing with him, then making his point all over again. The only benefit of non-chrome-lined barrels is for competition or extreme accuracy folks, a normal shooter will not see the difference between the two (something I agree with).

My chrome-lined Bushy 20" scoped upper will shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards. How much more accurate do you need, unless competition shooting or varming hunting at long distances?

 

[lycanthrope]

No...he's talking about millimeters and I'm talking about how normal people are capable of shooting 1 MOA with irons (not so hard using a 6 O'clock hold). The reduced 100 yard bull in CMP is about 1.35 inches and although many chrome lined guns will shoot this, the extra accuracy you get on average with a non chromed match barrel will matter out at 300 yards and the original poster will also be using a scope.....

The problem with chrome is often not in the beginning, but when it develops a few chips over on the lands. Then you start to see some decrease.

I'm not a chrome hater, but in a gun used to shoot groundhogs out to 300+ (as the original posted stated) it's not the optimum choice.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Over long term use, I've noticed flaking of the chrome occurs a lot more often than people notice. Most of the time it doesn't make a noticeable difference since it usually doesn't happen in a critical area and most people don't shoot well enough to notice the difference. I have to be prone and shooting over 400yds or shooting off bags to notice the difference myself; but I bet groundhogs at 300yds would show you the difference pretty quick.

I think stainless steel is probably a better for that application.