AR-15 build questions

[MikePGS]

Hello. Recently I've been contemplating building a AR-15. Theres a lot of information out there, so much so that it seems to be a daunting task to sift through it. I have a few questions that I was hoping you fine ladies and gentlemen could help me with. First off, the purpose would be for HD primarily and also the range of course. Please keep that in mind when responding.

1. For what parts is quality/brand important? I've read a few things saying that as far as a stripped lower goes, almost any of them will do so long as you avoid a few bad brands.

2. If I were to just go buy an AR off the shelf, would it be inherently better than one I could build? I don't have a ton of money at the moment so most likely I'm going to buy it in bits and pieces. That being said would it be better to just save up a good chunk and buy a name brand off the shelf AR or could I get something comparable building it myself? (Also I like the idea of building it, it seems interesting and a good way to familiarize myself with it)

3. Do I need to buy a particular receiver in order to shoot a particular caliber? I plan on getting a 5.56 barrel if possible, but would like to possibly use a 6.8 SPC upper at some point (hunting most likely). Will this work with any lower, or do I need to get a special configuration in order to do this?

4. What tools do I really need? I've read/watched various things that say you need a hammer and thats about it, to some that say you need a fully stocked workshop. I'm not adverse to buying tools, I just want to know what ones I actually need and what ones I don't.

5. Should I just assemble the lower and buy a ready made upper, or is building an upper a possibility/good idea as well? I haven't read or watched anything regarding the upper and whether or not it can be assembled by myself yet. Is this possible? and if so, how difficult is it compared to the lower? Does it make more sense to just buy a ready made upper?

Thanks in advance for any assistance on this matter. As usual the knowledge and wisdom found on these forums is greatly appreciated.

 

[Hanzo581]

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_763/products_id/53496

They also have 90 day layaway.

 

[RONSERESURPLUS]

Hello Mike

RON L here

I bult my Upper and replaced the trigger group with a Simple set of Punches and a few different hammers? It was handy to have a lot of different pliers and all and vice grips but the majority of that I did was easy to do with common tools I had!

The Lower I got was a Rock River lower, nothing slecial, but I added a Tuned trigger set of parts and removed the old GI parts set! The upper other than the Gas Tube instalation was a breeze! Lots of U-tube and other vids to go Step by step and lead ya by the hand! I'm mostly a M-1A and AK Guy and I I did build most of mine? Go for it man and If you need helkp, I'm sure many of us will help steer ya past the Obsticles! AR-15 newsgroup will help U as well!

 

[taliv]

1. mostly the barrel (and specifically how well it was chambered) and bolt carrier group, but also the trigger group

2. some companies like colt and KAC have a lot of value in their assembly that can't really be duplicated at home easily. however, imho, there's nothing special about the assembly of most brands.

3. yes obviously some calibers are too long to shoot in the AR15. calibers up to 308 can fit in the SR25/AR10 pattern receivers.

4. a punch is really helpful, as are a pair of vice grips and some tape. depending on the stock, forearm and flash hider you choose, buying an armorer's wrench combo comes in REALLY handy, but it can be done w/o.

5. it's easy to do either, but a) if the gun won't run when you're done, nobody's going to stand behind it for a refund. and b) i don't know how you could build a decent upper cheaper than you can buy a DD

 

[MMcfpd]

1. For what parts is quality/brand important? I've read a few things saying that as far as a stripped lower goes, almost any of them will do so long as you avoid a few bad brands.

Most forged lowers are essentially the same and thus interchangeable. There have been a few dogs, so just post here what name you're gravitating towards and you'll be advised.

2. If I were to just go buy an AR off the shelf, would it be inherently better than one I could build? I don't have a ton of money at the moment so most likely I'm going to buy it in bits and pieces. That being said would it be better to just save up a good chunk and buy a name brand off the shelf AR or could I get something comparable building it myself?

Assembling an AR is not particularly difficult, so given good components you can likely equal or better a factory build. But the cost will not vary much.

3. Do I need to buy a particular receiver in order to shoot a particular caliber? I plan on getting a 5.56 barrel if possible, but would like to possibly use a 6.8 SPC upper at some point (hunting most likely). Will this work with any lower, or do I need to get a special configuration in order to do this?

A standard lower receiver will work with 6.8 SPC and you can build that upper on a standard upper receiver. Some alternate calibers do require different/modified receivers.

4. What tools do I really need?

To build a lower a screwdriver, some punches and possibly a hex wrench set. A lower receiver vise block, a vise, roll pin punches, a clevis pin, a hammer block (often integral to a lower receiver vise block) and masking tape can be handy.

For an upper receiver you need at least a barrel wrench and an upper receiver vise block. A bolt-down vise is recommended, clamp on vises are not usually up to the task. A torque wrench is ideal, but not necessary. And a Brownells FSB block is helpful.

5. Should I just assemble the lower and buy a ready made upper, or is building an upper a possibility/good idea as well? I haven't read or watched anything regarding the upper and whether or not it can be assembled by myself yet. Is this possible? and if so, how difficult is it compared to the lower? Does it make more sense to just buy a ready made upper?

Uppers are a bit more involved, but not terribly so. I think it may be harder to take one apart. But putting together a lower and buying a complete upper is a good plan.

 

[MikePGS]

Most forged lowers are essentially the same and thus interchangeable. There have been a few dogs, so just post here what name you're gravitating towards and you'll be advised.

I was thinking of Spike's Tactical since I've read a few good things about them and the price is right. However if there is one around the same price that doesn't have a rollmark on it that would be preferred (or one that I could have custom engraved possibly).
FTA
I'm thinking of going carbine length (16") if that helps/matters.

 

[animator]

For a carbine, I'd recommend a carbine stock wrench. I think I paid 5 bucks for one at a gun show. They are a better alternative to the screwdriver-hammer method for tightening the buffer tube nut on collapsible stocks.


Other than that wrench, the only tools I've ever needed to assemble an AR-15 is a good punch set, a light hammer, some masking tape, a razor blade, and a bench vise. Youtube has some good videos on the process, both using specialized tools, as well as basic hand tools just slightly better a stick and a few rocks...


As far as alternative calibers, a good rule of thumb is that if the cartridge and magazine will fit in the magwell of a standard receiver, you can run it, provided you have the correctly-chambered upper.


I would find a complete upper before looking for parts to build one. More often than not, you'll come out ahead on cost, once you factor in all the taxes and shipping for all the different parts. With the popularity of the AR platform, it's downright difficult to NOT find a combination that you want.

 

[ol' scratch]

If you are going to go carbine length, have you considered a mid-length? It is the same size, but has longer hand guards and a longer gas system. They 'run' better according to some. I have a mid length and like it very much.

I built my first lower sitting at my kitchen table. It was very easy. I found a video online. You can get some deals on lowers if you look. Last summer at Camp Perry, I saw lowers for $75. They were from a reputable dealer too.

You can also get lowers that have cosmetic problems a little cheaper too.

Getting parts as you can afford them is the reason I built mine. It was tough, however; to wait. Check this site for parts http://www.mapartsinc.com/. They often run deals.

 

[animator]

If you are going to go carbine length, have you considered a mid-length? It is the same size, but has longer hand guards and a longer gas system. They 'run' better according to some. I have a mid length and like it very much.

"Run better" under what circumstances? Not discrediting you by any means, I'm just curious what would cause this assumption by anyone?

Reason I ask is I have a 16" that has run 100% efficiently, using everything from expensive factory loads, to cheap Russian import, to minimum-charged handloads, and have never run into any sort of issues. The same has been true with my 20", but I do not have a mid-length to do any other comparison.

So I'm just curious...

 

[ol' scratch]

I have read on this forum, talked to people and discussed why 'they' say the rifle runs better and it has something to do with the shorter gas system in the CAR rifles. Now, this is just what I have read and have NEVER had any experience with them, but it has been said they run hotter, are harder on the bolt and internal workings of the rifle and tend to have more problems cycling due to timing. AGAIN, not trying to start something, just what SOME have said about the shorter gas systems.

By the way, my rifle is a 16 inch barrel, but has a mid length gas system in it.

 

[MMcfpd]

I have or have had carbine and mid-length gas systems on 14.5" and 16" barrels. The advantages of the middy are a slightly longer sight radius and a bit less recoil (such as that is with 5.56).

But honestly, IMO, for civilian usage you'll never know the difference.

Oh yeah, with the middy, if it's important, you can have a little longer extension of your left arm and still be gripping handguards.

 

[Rshooter]

1. For what parts is quality/brand important? I've read a few things saying that as far as a stripped lower goes, almost any of them will do so long as you avoid a few bad brands.

This is true, a spikes is a good one.

2. If I were to just go buy an AR off the shelf, would it be inherently better than one I could build? I don't have a ton of money at the moment so most likely I'm going to buy it in bits and pieces. That being said would it be better to just save up a good chunk and buy a name brand off the shelf AR or could I get something comparable building it myself? (Also I like the idea of building it, it seems interesting and a good way to familiarize myself with it)

Building can be fun and unless you really blow it it can be as solid as a lot of factory rifles.

3. Do I need to buy a particular receiver in order to shoot a particular caliber? I plan on getting a 5.56 barrel if possible, but would like to possibly use a 6.8 SPC upper at some point (hunting most likely). Will this work with any lower, or do I need to get a special configuration in order to do this?

Both will work in the "5.56" lower.

4. What tools do I really need? I've read/watched various things that say you need a hammer and thats about it, to some that say you need a fully stocked workshop. I'm not adverse to buying tools, I just want to know what ones I actually need and what ones I don't.

For a lower you can get buy with a hammer, a punch set, and some tape.

5. Should I just assemble the lower and buy a ready made upper, or is building an upper a possibility/good idea as well? I haven't read or watched anything regarding the upper and whether or not it can be assembled by myself yet. Is this possible? and if so, how difficult is it compared to the lower? Does it make more sense to just buy a ready made upper?

For my first build I would purchase a full upper. You can go with CMMG to Del-ton with many others in between.

 

[Tirod]

AR timing is dependent on barrel length. The port needs to be optimally placed about 5-7 inches from the muzzle. That controls the amount of gas sent to the BCG before it's reduced by the bullet leaving the barrel. That's the real timing issue.

You can move the port further back, it sends more gas to the carrier, and that's what increases wear and breakage - too much pressure. It's a known problem with military carbine gas guns, which will show the evidence in high rate usage. A civilian gun with less than 1000 rounds a year, not so much.

Carbine gas guns with typical springs and buffers have shown evidence of bolt bounce in high speed video. That means the bolt carrier is literally rebounding off the barrel extension and UNLOCKING THE BOLT just as ignition could occur. That's one result of too much gas pressure. Nothing much seems to happen from it. But then again, kabooms from case rupture happen with little reason other than to blame an overload or the operator. Of course, few knew the bolts were bouncing unlocked, either. It's not something seen with rifle length, heavier parts.

If carbine length is really perfected, there are lots of buffers and springs on the market for no reason.

 

[rtn]

Given the OP's primary requirement as a HD tool, I humbly suggest forgoing a rifle and instead opting for a scattergun (a new or used 870 Police being an excellent choice).

 

[1stmarine]

For home defense your best bet is a light M4 contour or any other light 16" barrels. You might give up a bit of accuracy but gain in quick aiming and changing position, something critical for Close Quarters and Home Defense.
Non-chromed barrels are more accurate than chromed ones but they last less on average. Anyway the cost of a barrel is not a huge deal compared to cost of ammo.

Any decent lower will do ie: RRA, Delton, DPMS, etc...
Also any kits they have or already built will do ok. Try to get a 1:8 twist of rate so you can shoot accurately Hornady TAP 75gr amunition, an excellent choice for home defense although any hunting softpoints will be ok too.

Remember that the brand doesn't mean anything since many parts are produced in the same mills. For examples Delton and Rock Rivers use the same mill as colt for many parts. What they do not do is spent so much time making sure the system is up to military specs so they payrol (time invested in each system) is what makes a huge difference.

The most important thing about an AR-15 whether acquired built or 'properly' built by yourslef, is the internals, being the Bolt carrier group the most important part. Make sure the key is properly stacked according to specs, the bolt is Magnetic parts Tested and that you have a shrouded firing pin. in a home defense situation reliability is the name of the game and this is the single part that needs more attention. Then other things of course need to be up to spec too but normally they are not the source of problems. Delton and others have M16 bolt carriers for the same price of the Ar-15 carriers, something to think about.

I like most triggers and specially the 2 stage Rock Rivers for the money although for close quarters I suggest a single stage. DPMS, Delton, others... anyone will do.

Also get a small footprint but linear brake. You will appreciate this in a CQB situation getting the blast away from your eyes and ears. In an emergency situation most likely you might not have any sort of ear or eye protection so this will help you the most.

For your purpose IT IS KEY TO KEEP WEIGHT down. To help keep the weight down you can use a magpul polymer modular handguard that is very light and durable and then attach a nice tactical light to it.

There are so many choices that you will go crazy so keep it simple and make sure it is super reliable, otherwise get a nice AK or converted Saiga for home defense. Another super reliable system is the keltec SU16-C and CA models that give you lots of reliability with their piston system and the bolt locking system is like an AR. It uses AR magazines.

I have 7 ARs and one system that I am enjoying a lot lately is an RRA M4 kit - Heavy barrel 1:8 non-chromed. with 2 stage trigger. Adams Arms Carbine Piston, Tapco stock and grips and Midwest industry floating rails. VEry reliable and .7 MOA with US GI loads but a tad on the heavy side for Close Quarters.

What I tell you might work for me and not for others based on purpose, special circumstances, likes or dislikes but it is information from experience first hand. I built many ARs and AKs for fun after I retired from the service and my hobby is to shoot and help other folks as much as they help me learn something everyday.

Cheers,
E.