AR-15 gurus, how do you cycle the action with the rifle shouldered?

[benEzra]

I shoot an AK recreationally and competitively, and one of the things I like about the design is that it is very easy to work the action with the left hand with the rifle shouldered, like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz5LPaMhlOc

(not speaking of the magazine change so much as how he's running the bolt). It's VERY easy to go from Condition Three to Condition Zero with the rifle in a ready position or as the rifle is shouldered, or to do a tug-rack-bang drill.

I've recently become interested in the AR platform, and it appears to me that the charging handle of an AR is designed to be pulled with a slingshot grip with the right hand. My question is, how then do you cycle the action with the rifle shouldered. Is it with the right hand, and the right arm in sort of a chicken-wing bend, like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqEQqHIcyxE

BTW, I've seen some 3-gun shooters with what appear to be oversized charging handles that stick out on the left side--is that so they can slap it back with the left hand? I've never seen one on a "serious" rifle--is there a reason for that?

 

[AK103K]

I just reach up with my left hand, using the thumb and forefinger, and "pinch" the charging handle on the left side and pull it back an let it go. I just have the standard charging handles on my AR's, works fine. Also works well if its not in your shoulder.

 

[f4t9r]

use Left hand and hit the release button on the side and keep shooting

 

[AK103K]

That doesnt work so well when the bolts already down.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Turn the rifle slightly sideways and pull the handle with my strong hand.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

I have an extended latch that sticks out a bit on the left so I just use the palm of my weak hand and place the latch extension on the pinkie-side of my palm and push my left palm towards my right shoulder, thus pulling the charging handle. It seems to keep my weak hand closer to the body.

Without a rifle, it would look like my left hand is reaching across my chest to pat the front of my right shoulder. I'm not sure if this would work on a standard charging handle since it's a bit smaller.

I find gripping it with my thumb and forefinger to pull back a bit awkward on my wrist.

 

[taliv]

My question is, how then do you cycle the action with the rifle shouldered. Is it with the right hand, and the right arm in sort of a chicken-wing bend, like this?

BTW, I've seen some 3-gun shooters with what appear to be oversized charging handles that stick out on the left side--is that so they can slap it back with the left hand? I've never seen one on a "serious" rifle--is there a reason for that?

yes, right hand, chicken-wing bend. (actually, i'm left-handed and so I run the CH with my left hand. because the latch is on the left side, i don't have to grab both sides of the latch, and have somewhat less movement than right-handed shooters who have to come all the way over the gun.

note: there is a bit of misinfo in that video. there's absolutely nothing wrong with using the magazine as a monopod. and although there's no reason to do so, moving the mag up, down, back or forward with your hand while firing will not cause malfunctions. if it does, get your rifle fixed.

are you talking about badger tac latches and the like? they were made to get a better grip, not specifically to allow right-handers to operate the CH with their left hands. doing so would waste far more movement as you bring your left hand all the way back from the front of the rifle.

you can run the CH pretty easy from your shoulder but you do have to move your head, obviously. you lose your cheek weld.

 

[pujyboy]

I have always tried to make a habit of cycling the bolt by using the left had with the palm of the hand facing my face, using the meaty part of my hand below the pinky. This is easy to do in a high stress situation without looking down, and installing an enlarged release lever can aid your proficiency greatly.

 

[Steve in PA]

Tactically, you should NOT use your strong hand to operate the charging handle. The strong hand remains on the pistol grip and in control of the rifle. There is no waste of movement in this method.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I use the same method pujyboy described and find it works well if you need to cycle the charging handle - though if you are running the telestock short (like many people do), you may have to break your cheek weld to cycle it like this.

 

[rbernie]

though if you are running the telestock short (like many people do), you may have to break your cheek weld to cycle it like this.

I cannot cycle the charging handle all the way rearward without breaking cheek weld. More to the point, some of my ARs are heavy enough (not designed for offhand shooting) that I cannot maintain a cheekweld worth a darn using only my strong hand on the grip.

I can unshoulder the rifle to mid-chest-level, slap the charging handle rearward with my left mitt while angling the rifle to the right, and reshoulder the rifle with less chance of a bobble than when compared to trying to do it with my face planted on the stock, This approach also works for all of my ARs (including my AR10s). Given this, I've pretty much stopped trying to do it any other way.

I do appreciate my ability to run my AKs pretty much from the shoulder, but I can't recall the last time that it actually mattered. It has also been pointed out that running the AK from the shoulder requires the use of the right (my strongside) hand to cycle the action.

Tactically, you should NOT use your strong hand to operate the charging handle. The strong hand remains on the pistol grip and in control of the rifle. There is no waste of movement in this method.

In my naive time-motion analyses, I can't see any real benefit to NOT using the strong side hand to run an AK. I can only presume that you're talking specifically about running an AR and the loss of time/awkwardness of crossing the rifle with the right hand to access the left-side charging latch.

 

[AK103K]

It seems to me with either rifle, the left hand (assuming a right handed shooter) does the reloading and charging. The right hand never leaves the grip.

 

[rbernie]

It seems to me with either rifle, the left hand (assuming a right handed shooter) does the reloading and charging. The right hand never leaves the grip.

For the AK, running the charging handle from the shoulder only works for me using the right hand. Using the left requires that I drop the rifle to midchest level, angle it to the left and cross across the top of the receiver with my offhand to get to the charging handle.

FWIW - Correia has a neat video showing him holding a Saiga to the shoulder while pulling the charging handle back with the right hand, recharging with the left, and then releasing the charging handle when the left hand hits the forearm again.

It's fast and cool, but I'm far too spindly in the upper body to hold a Saiga (or most any other weapon other than perhaps a USGI M16) in the pocket and maintain a decent cheekweld using only my right hand on the charging handle.

 

[ckay]

I pinch the handle and pull back with the rifle shouldered.

 

[AK103K]

For the AK, after a mag swap, I just reach under with my left hand, palm flat against the side of the receiver and use my thumb to rack the charging handle. I just find it to be more natural and simple. My left hand is right there anyway. One advantage to the AK is, any time you swap a mag, you always stroke the charging handle. That way you know the gun is ALWAYS loaded when your done. From that habit, I always stroke the charging handle on my AR's after a mag change that was done without using the bolt stop, when the bolt is closed. I've had AR mags not stop the bolt on empty more than a couple of times, and it solves that worry and having to check. Its not so much an issue if the bolt is back.

The pinch method also allows you to quickly press check the AR. Its also not so much a pinch, but a push. The flat side of the index finger is actually doing all the work, the thumb just gives a little more control.

Another advantage to the pinch is, if you have different AR's with different sight set ups, it works easily and naturally with all of them. I have one AR with a scope mounted on a lever base. Trying to do a broad sweep on it doenst work very well, due to the levers on the mount and the scope itself. You have to hit a smaller window.

 

[benEzra]

To all, thanks for the info on running an AR. I have almost no experience with the platform at this point, but want to learn.

BTW, can anyone recommend any good books or videos on running an AR-pattern rifle? I'd be doing mostly IPSC/USPSA style carbine matches, and possibly 3-gun at some point.

It has also been pointed out that running the AK from the shoulder requires the use of the right (my strongside) hand to cycle the action.

For me (and for a lot of other people, it seems), running the AK action with the left hand is a lot faster and doesn't require breaking your firing grip or cheek weld. That also allows you to change mags and cycle the action with the same hand, instead of having to switch halfway through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz5LPaMhlOc

If you have beefier arms and can't go under the rifle with the rifle vertical, you can also tilt the ejection port down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KarGaRSWX4M&feature=related

I've done option #1 (rifle in firing position) under pressure in a carbine match, and it worked great for me.

For the AK, running the charging handle from the shoulder only works for me using the right hand. Using the left requires that I drop the rifle to midchest level, angle it to the left and cross across the top of the receiver with my offhand to get to the charging handle.

For me, it seems a whole lot easier to go under the rifle and use the thumb/index finger side of your hand, as in the above video. Unless you're using a drum, going under the rifle doesn't require shifting the rifle's position, and allows the magazine to be replaced and the action cycled without having to flip the rifle between those movements. Also, I have an optic atop my AK (a Kobra), which makes going over the top of the rifle a little more difficult.

 

[Caimlas]

Pull the trigger?

 

[benEzra]

Lol... :d

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I should also mention that the "slap your face" method of charging the rifle can sometimes bind or bend the cheaper charging handles because you are effectively dragging one side of the charging handle against the receiver when you cycle it like that. (put the loose charging handle in the upper and then try this and you can see what I am talking about better than I can describe it). This is one nice thing about the extended charging handles, they give you better leverage so you aren't doing that as much (and they are usually better made to boot).

The pinch method is almost as fast and doesn't have the same issue because you aren't torquing the charging handle to one side.