AR-15 Magazine Spring Cycling & Compression Life?

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Saw-Bones

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It’s my understanding that cycling (loading & unloading) magazines will eventually weaken the springs. Is there an estimation on how many cyclings a new GI, AR-15 magazine will perform adequately for?

Also, if a new GI, AR-15 magazine is loaded and not cycled how long before the spring is weakened (taking a “set”?) ?

Thanks for any help….. Doc
 
I don't know.

But I do know I have several GI mags (20 & 30 round) that have been left continuously loaded since I stole them from the Army in 1970.

I couldn't even guess how many rounds they have had through them.

But, they still work perfectly.

PS: A new mag spring takes a set the first few times it is used. Nothing much happens after that.

rc
 
I'm curious where these theories come from. I don't believe spring steel weakens because of use. I also don't believe it can take a "set". If it is stretched past it elasticity point it will, but how do you do that loading or unloading your magazine? There are 60 year old (or much older) cars out there with there original springs. Why aren't they all sitting on the stops? Magazine springs are not something I worry about.
 
i've personally never worn out a mag spring. i have worn out several action springs and other springs like the extractor spring.
 
Springs can degrade from cycling and being stored loaded if the springs are being compressed too far into their elastic range.

But those mags have a lot of safety margin built in that's been proven over time for both stored loaded and cycling.

The military seems to be concerned about both those things and spec accordingly.


It's mostly an issue with designs that are packing the most rounds in the smallest space (compacts/pocket guns) I've read it about shotgun springs a few times too.
 
Weapons springs get cycled at high rates which can affect them. Mag springs don't. All they need to do is offer enough pressure when fully loaded to force the column of cartridges up and present a new round before the bolt comes forward in the cycle to strip it off.

The faster the bolt, the stiffer the spring to some degree, along with the size of the cartridge.

As for them "taking a set," getting weaker the first few times they are loaded, etc., it's been a long running argument on the net. Some will say it can't happen with a properly designed and manufactured spring, others can cite anecdotal experiences for paragraphs where it did.

In the long run however most mag springs don't get weak over time. The concern comes from those who want to keep a few ready at any time for action. A good example of that are the millions of magazines loaded ready to use by LEO's - and they don't all carry Glocks. It's not a problem, cops aren't buying special mags, and the internet isn't full of stories about them having malfunctions and dying as a result. It is a non issue in the big picture. Accuracy and an overabundance of team firepower injuring innocent bystanders is the big issue these days.

People like to tinker with mags, the problem, especially with military mags for the M16, is to recognize very few will crush a defective one. They will buy a new spring and follower, tweak the feed lips, and get it running - or sell their defective ones to someone else and let them deal with it. If you are buying used mags - buyer beware. Expect issues and if you get good results you beat the odds.
 
We managed to wear a few of them out at the range I used to work at. The rental AR-15 had tens of thousands of rounds through it. I decided to change the magazine springs when rounds were not behaving right. They were starting to misfeed and get caught between the bolt and charging handle. New springs fixed the issue.
 
I'm curious where these theories come from. I don't believe spring steel weakens because of use. I also don't believe it can take a "set". If it is stretched past it elasticity point it will, but how do you do that loading or unloading your magazine? There are 60 year old (or much older) cars out there with there original springs. Why aren't they all sitting on the stops? Magazine springs are not something I worry about.
Springs can take a set under a static load, but generally that is because they were improperly heat treated....

As to cycling, car springs are not cycled anywhere near the fatigue limit, so they tend to have a very long life. The life of a spring depends on two things, the actual strain placed on the spring, and the number of cycles. Over time all springs will eventually loose some elasticity and "wear out". How long? That depends, so just be prepared to replace them when necessary.
 
With proper steel, springs do not "take a set" from being compressed. E.g., my father gave me eleven "bring-back" pistols which had been in storage for some forty years. All the mags were full. All worked just fine when I test-fired the pistols.

I began IPSC in 1980. I still use some of the magazines from that time.

Many tube-magazine rifles stay fully loaded for decades--without failure to feed.

No different than the valve springs in automobile museum cars. They sit for years with some of the springs fully compressed. When fired up, all's well.
 
When I was in Viet Nam ('69-70) it was the accepted practice to load only 18 rounds in the GI 20 round mags. When we got new loaded 20 round mags, we disassembled them, stretched the springs, and reloaded with 18 rounds. It was learned by experience that this prevented jams. I fired many thousand rounds thru that issued M-16 (the early model with the 3 prong flash hider) and never had a jam during my 11 months in combat. I never used the forward assist, and seldom closed the side cover. I don't understand why they still put those two useless items on the ARs - especially the civilian version.
 
My preferred range mags are 20 round USGI surplus and most of mine are well worn with all the original parts. I always keep them fully loaded and stored in a 50 cal ammo can, ready to grab and go to the range (they are never unloaded for no more than a day after I've shot). I've never had one fail to feed in more than 10 years of my using them.

it was the accepted practice to load only 18 rounds in the GI 20 round mags. When we got new loaded 20 round mags, we disassembled them, stretched the springs, and reloaded with 18 rounds. It was learned by experience that this prevented jams.
I always thought that underloading AR/M15 mags was due to the fact that they sometimes full mags won't latch in with a closed bolt?
 
Thanks guys. The consensus seems to be that there is nothing to worry about. My concerns are addressed by danez71 remark, “… those mags have a lot of safety margin built in that's been proven over time for both stored loaded and cycling. The military seems to be concerned about both those things and spec accordingly.”

Even if mag springs are made to spec nothing is failure proof, so there is no getting away from vigilance.

Thanks again….. Doc
 
No different than the valve springs in automobile museum cars. They sit for years with some of the springs fully compressed. When fired up, all's well.


It is very different. A big difference how far the springs are being compressed.

An valve spring is being compressed maybe .25" from the lobe on he cam and the spring is around 2"+ relaxed.

The valve spring gets compressed around 15%. Its a robust spring that you probably couldn't squish with you fingers. They will last millions of cycles over the life of the engine


A pistol mag spring is around 7" - 8" that gets stuffed into a mag thats maybe 4" - 4.5" and then another 2.5" - 3" of ammo crammed in there too.

So you end up compressing mag spring over 60% when loaded (well over that in some aps). The spring wire is minuscule when compared to a valve spring and you can fairly easily compress it when you fingers.


I've posted a ton of data here and on TFL about this.
 
I have military AR mags circa 1968 that fell in my bag when I headed back to the states. Never had to replace a spring. I did have to replace a mag spring in one of my 1911's.
 
:) 0.3+ is far more common for cam lobe lift--but the spring is usually compressed 50% more by the rocker arm. Chevy Duntov 099 solid lifter cam, 0.5" lift. Around 0.6" valve lift, you get somewhere near crash, if not already there.

Doesn't matter, though. Compression springs just sit there and look at you and nothing bad happens.
 
the USGI mags now made with chrome silicon springs are supposed to have an extremely high lifespan
 
Doesn't matter, though. Compression springs just sit there and look at you and nothing bad happens.

Compress any coil spring 95% and while it still may just there and look at you.... it will physically look and behave differently.

Compress any coil spring 75% and the effects will be less.

And so on and so on.


There is no way around metal degradation from being bent too far into that specific metals elastic range.

It's not a myth. It's science. It's proven. It's documented.

And it's been shared right here at THR
 
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