AR-15 with side-mounted charging handle?

[Chris Rhines]

A few days back, fellow THRer Justin sent me a picture of an AR-15 that had been fitted with a left-side charging handle.

As soon as I had all the drool cleaned out of my keyboard, I went about in search of more info on side-charge ARs, and found certain references to a HyTac or HiTec arms, that makes such things.

Does anyone have any experience with an AR-15 with a side mounted cocking handle? Any other manufacturers out there?

- Chris

 

[Correia]

American Spirt Arms makes them.

 

[Correia]

Found it: www.gunkits.com

 

[TechBrute]

The one I've seen was from American Spirit Arms. I don't know if I'd have total confidence in it, though. I looked at the construction, and the whole thing centered around this tiny little nub that looked like it didn't take much to break off. I'm sure it would be fine for a plinker, but I don't know if I'd use it on the job.

 

[Jim K]

The AR-180/180B has a side handle and it is, in some respects, better than the AR-15 (easier to clean, for example).

Jim

 

[Steve Smith]

NRA Highpower/Match Rifle folks use these on their guns at times. They are usually reliable, but sometimes they'll fly off at the worst possible time. My suggestions would be to go through someone like Scott Medesha who does it all the time for heavy match use.

 

[Kaylee]

They are usually reliable, but sometimes they'll fly off at the worst possible time.

Hey Steve -- can you elaborate please? What specifically goes wrong? Does the charging handle slip the track in the reciever? Does the bolt slip off the charging handle stud thingie?

Can you tell if it's a design weakness in a particular area?


-K

 

[Steve Smith]

Lol Kaylee...I had to go back and read the thread to remember what we were talking about.


The problem is that the handle will have its own inertia, and the heavier you make it (out at the end) the more stress there is where it enters the bolt. With lots of cycling it will break. Not to mention if you ever have to pull on it hard because of a bad reload. A little 1/2" long 1/8" thick rod can't take that much stress. Try to find a place in the bolt carrier that you can get it much deeper engagement and try to use a very strong rod for your handle. Keep the weight at the very end to a minimum.


BTW, what I'm talking about doesn't use a charging handle in the "slot" above the bolt carrier.


Ok, here's a pic from Scott Medesha's site. The pic is supposed to show the brass defector, but what I'm showing you is where the bolt handle is. All you see is the big plastic knob, but its better than nothing. Note that the upper has to be milled out for the bolt handle ot travel. Now, I know Scott does some awesome work, but I wonder if you could put that handle somewhere else and make it stronger...I was all into my ARs two nights ago and could've looked. No time in evenings now.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Good application would be for non-semiautomatic AR type actions. Kaliph legal since we can't be trusted with self-loaders. We're two stoopid says our steak gubmint.

 

[Steve Smith]

4v50 Gary, in that case you could do away with the bolt/bolt carrier and convert it to a traditional bolt with a downturned handle. Folks already do that as well.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Nah, straight-pull. Less motor skill. Pull back and release.

 

[Steve Smith]

Good point. Only one thing you have to do to make it work, too. don't drill the barrel for a gas port, or plug the gas manifold in the front sight. No need for a gas tube, either.

 

[Kaylee]

Which would be great if CA didn't ban pretty much "anything on an AR or AK receiver" *grump*

Given that the receiver is unmodified from a regular one in such a straight-pull -- all the mods seem to be in the upper -- I have a hard time believing that the Ca DOJ would let it fly... I'd be delighted to hear otherwise though!

As to the side-charging.. the model you're showing looks like a fixed, reciprocating handle mounted on the right side of the bolt carrier, yes?

The ASAs I've seen look just like a L1A1 or FAL charging handle, non-reciprocating on the left hand side. I talked to the guys at the factory and they said it's an easy conversion on even a stock bolt carrier -- the carrier takes a little "U" shaped notch in the left side, which can be pulled back (but not pushed forward, obviously) by a little stud in the charging handle on the left.

To be honest, I can't see how such a system could possibly be MORE fragile than a screwed-down key on top of the carrier, pulled back by a hook. Unless of course the sheet steel cover for the charging handle track, wherever that goes, gets jammed up somehow.

Are we talking about the same thing?

-K


By the by.. today was "internship" day -- I got to refinish a couple of SP1 slabside recievers from waaaaay back in the day to match new whiz-bang M4 uppers for some PD or another. Ya know, it just really hurts to see pre-ban receivers on PD issue weapons. I have to admit I wished we coulda talked 'em into "hey... how about we just buy you brand spanking new recievers instead of these naughty old chunks of Jurassic Aluminum..."

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

I'm working on a straight pull boltgun that uses ar-15 or ar-10 fire control parts, bolt and barrel, but is built on a new reciever and uses a "conventional" stock. the ar-10 based one will use m-14 or g3 or fal mags, the ar-15 one will use mini-14, m-16, or AK mags.

 

[Steve Smith]

No, we're not talking about the same thing. I'm not aware of anyone putting a non-recriprocating handle on an AR, but I'm sure it would be pretty easy. It would not cause any stress on the assembly from what I can imagine. However, if the FAL design is copied, you may wind up with the charging handle "rod" (for lack of a better term) extending back over the left side of the stock a bit. That will force you to move your head so the benefit may be negligible.

If I may ask without sounding snotty, what are you trying to accomplish?

 

[BigG]

What was the downside, if any, of the original Stoner bolt handle up in the gap below the carry handle?

 

[Kaylee]

If I may ask without sounding snotty, what are you trying to accomplish?

Heh... the education of how to do it, mostly.
That and after I got over the "cool" factor I never really liked the "T" charging handle right udder by dose.

You know.. I had wondered about that problem with a FAL-type handle, but I don't recall noticing it when I played with one briefly a few months back. It's certainly possible I overlooked it, of course.. looks like it's time to call the factory again.


-K

Andrew -- that's cool!

As to the top charing handle... wasn't the original reciprocating? I don't recall....

 

[Steve Smith]

The FAL "rod" won't bother you because the FAL receiver is so dagum long.

Don't you know the AR charging handle is a natural nostril filler? Anyone knows that you should not go around with your portholes open...need two ARs and you can fill both nostrils at once.

I do believe that the original carry handle charging handle was recriprocating. That could have been changed, but I don't know why they changed it to a t-handle. I think just because it is easier to get to. Good thing they did or the flat top would have been another big design change.

Lots of folks don't like the t-handle but I use it so dagum much it feels like second nature.


BTW, is there something "cool" about touching your nose to the charging handle? I must have missed that day in school. I just use it to get a consistent cheek weld.

 

[Kaylee]

BTW, is there something "cool" about touching your nose to the charging handle? I must have missed that day in school. I just use it to get a consistent cheek weld.

Cool about it? Not that I know of.. I was taught the same way by an ex-military guy, so I presumed it was just some military technique for maintaining cheek weld, just as you said.

(Interestingly enough, I saw a photo on American Heritage last year during all the bammo-whammo Afghanistan stuff of a SpecOps guy who'd taped a panel of skateboard tape or som'n on the top of an A2 stock.. I presume for the same reason. *oweeee* Still, if SpecOps does it, it must be right, eh? )

Anyhow I called ASA again today.. they say the side charger carry plate ain't no problem. Apparently it's only about half the length of the reciever anyhow, so you can work the charging handle just fine without losing cheek weld. Sounds purty nifty.

Regardless, I'll post a review when I've got it all together if'n y'all would like.

-K

 

[Justin]

The particular example of an AR with a reciprocating bolt handle on the left that I handled was done by a guy at Scattergun Technologies. Unfortunately I don't have any more info than that.

T'was really, really cool, and something that would probably be good for gaming.

The biggest downside was that the thing was held in with an Allen screw, which means you'd have to have an Allen wrench handy to field strip the rifle.