AR build question... need input.

[JWarren]

Hiya guys.

I am about to put together an AR. Let me cover the bases of usage, needs, etc...


Primary Use: Personal Defense. Home Defense, Property Defense.

I am not concerned in the LEAST about overpenetration. I have 3" heart pine interior walls, and solid core heart cypress doors. My exterior walls are 2.5 inches of the same. My wife and I have pre-discussed plans that factor in safety and I have NO neighbors. So, PLEASE, no overpenetration discussions.

Secondary Use: General Purpose Rifle. Meaning, this will be the one that I have on me when I'm out checking our land, strapped on my back on a 4 wheeler, etc.

Weight is always a consideration, so is bulkiness-- but weight is not an overpowering concern. As long as I can keep it significantly lighter than my 12.00 pound LR-308, I'll feel like I've died and gone to heaven.

Contingency Use: I may-- on occassion-- use the rifle as a "close" range medium game-taker. It would primarily be used verses Coyotes killing deer behind my house. But I may use it on my trail stands occassionally to take medium-sized deer.

Max. probablity of range for deer would be inside of 50 yards. For Coyotes it would be 100 yards max.



EDIT: I failed to mention: The rifle is being build specifically to be able to stabilize heavier grain bullets, hence the 1:7 twist and M4 Feed Ramps mentioned below.


EDIT 2: I should also mention that for longer shots, greater energy, and precision shooting, I have a DPMS LR-308 with 24" fluted stainless steel barrel that is sporting magnified optics. But it's not one I'll be carrying around all the time at 12 pounds!



What I've already decided upon:


Upper: Flattop with M4 Feed Ramps
Barrel: 1:7 Chromed-lined M4 Profile, 16 inch
Muzzle: A2 Flash hider
Buttstock: M4 Six Position Adjustable
Pistol Grip: Standard
Trigger: Standard

Here's where I am still deciding. It's really both an aesthetic decision in a lot of ways. But there are significant changes to the rifle profile depending on which way I go.

I'm deciding if I want to go with a "Specter" profile on the upper or a standard carbine with triangle front sight.

Here's what I mean:

Option 1: "Specter" Profile

Forearm: YHM Lightweight Free-Float Four-Rail Forearm, Rifle Length, with Forearm end-cap
Gas Block: Low Profile
Front Sight: YHM handguard-mounted flip-up front sight
Rear Sight: YHM flip-up Same-Plane rear sight.


Option 2: Carbine Profile

Forearm: YHM Lightweight Free Float Four-Rail Forearm, Carbine Length
Gas Block/Front Sight: Standard F-Marked Triangle Front Sight
Rear Sight: Detachable or Flip up Same-Plane rear sight with both Windage/elevation adjustments.


Going Option 1 will cost me a tad more, but it does have advantages beyond the aesthetics. I feel that this set-up would make it easier to incorporate an optical sight to the platform if I so choose. I do potentially see this as a future consideration.

However, I am concerned that the Iron-Sight set-up may not be as durable as the carbine configuration. In addition, the front sight would not actually be connected in any way to the barrel. That may affect accuracy.

I frankly, like the smooth profile of this setup, but I don't want aesthetics to be a concern over use. Form follows function.


Going Option 2, I feel that the front sight would probably be more durable, and I believe it may be more accurate than a handguard mounted one.

However, I am concerned that the triangle front sight base may get in the sight picture of potential optics in a distracting way.


I suppose there is always the option of a flip up front sight gas-block. I may look into that as well.



I would appreciate any input you guys may have. Personal experience with real usage of the rile would be most valuable!


Thanks!



-- John

 

[Soybomb]

Is 5.56 legal in your states for taking deer? If not you might need to move to 6.8. Past that I've heard of no one complaining about inaccuracy from rail mounted front sights and most magnified optics will make a fsb disappear so I don't think you have much to worry about either way.

 

[ScottsGT]

I would seriously consider a 7.62X39 upper. Same light weight platform, more umph. Or maybe one of the larger caliber AR's, but smaller than your current .308 AR platform?

 

[Dobe]

5.56 will be fine for white tail. I wish I knew how many deer have been taken with .22 LR and .22 magnums. Any centerfire .22 is legal in my state.

Since you're don't seem to be stiving for ultra light, either should be fine, depending upon your wants.

Sounds like you have thought this through.

 

[JWarren]

Guys, Its not a question of caliber.

I've already called the MS Game and Fish Commission. Any centerfire caliber .22 and above is legal.

I've already been down the 7.62x39 road, and am not interested in remaining there. I decided to move away from 7.62x39 for the following reasons:

1. Limited choices of bullets
2. Want to move towards a NATO stockpiling caliber
3. Want to have at least one rifle (besides 22 rimfire) where I can carry quite a bit of ammunition.
4. I kinda prefer to keep 7.62x39 in the AK platform, and I just got out of those.

As for 6.8 and 6.5, it doesn't fit the model at this time. The ammunition is still not popular enough among both citizens and agencies to consider.

I've held off on 6.8 and 6.5 for the following reasons:

1. Cost
2. Availability
3. Lack of widespread civillian use at this time
4. No Government agency official adoption yet.
5. Still a very new caliber.

When the above conditions change, I'll look into a 6.8 a LOT more seriously.

And again, I've already got .308 as my primary hunting rifle. This is for a "Can Do" handy rifle.




Thanks!

-- John

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

Go with option number 1...If you have "no neighbors" then you have alot of empty land/woods around? Lots of land=lots of critters, so you are going to want some sort of optic to make things easier...

4x ACOG maybe?

 

[JWarren]

B_Joe, I think I'll probably do what you are suggesting. I figure I can put some lok-tite on the screws and not worry too much.

Yeah,... its kinda interesting. Jenn and I are renovating my Great-Grandfather's old house (since last Feb.) It is LITERALLY in the woods on our land. He made his living as a hunter and trapper so I guess that made sense.

Last Thursday night, I had to listen to a pack of Coyotes kill a young doe out behind our house at about 10:30 PM. I understand the whole "Circle of Life" thing, but I don't think I want it going on outside my bedroom window. I've seen tracks literally under my bedroom window.

In the future, I am going to seriously start a quest to find a "Quick-Detach, Return-to-Zero" Night Vision optic for this rifle. I kinda like the idea of being able to put it on at night for such as I heard last Thursday, but then take it off as I am out and about.

I may look into a 3 or 4X ACOG in a bit-- after the IRS gets though chewing my butt off. grrrr....


Thanks!


-- John

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Scoping a "normal" a4-style AR is easier with an adapter to put the scope forward for a more normal shooting position and eye relief. I put one on my gun that has no mount on the handguard.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=317

It hold "zero" very well when it's removed and re-attached.

A little pricy, but probably cheaper than handguards with mounts.

 

[MHBushmaster]

I laughed out loud at your edits on how you wanted your rifle to turn out.
My HD carbine/RECCE:


YHM Mid-lenghth rail, carbine gas system, specter low profile gasblock, YHM end cap, Troy Medievil Brake (Bad Guy DNA "obtainer").


Side View of the YHM rail, with Trijicon TA01 ECOS, 16" Stainless Steel 1/8" Twist Recon Barrel


Better view of the ACOG on the ARMS mount with a piggybacked Doctors Optic, its a 7MOA (or thereabout) red dot optic for close-in target acquisition.

Here is a better view of the Troy Brake (DNA obtainer):


ETA: for BUIS, Back Up Iron Sights, the ACOG has them incorportated into the scope design as well as having the Doctors Optic, its really like having 3 different sighting systems on one piece of gear.

 

[JWarren]

MHBushmaster,

Thats almost exactly what I am looking at!

The only differences that I can see is that I was thinking about the Rifle length forearm instead of the Midlength. It would give me a smidgen more sight radius and cover a tad more barrel.

I thought about going with a 1:8 Stainless Barrel as well. But since I wanted to be absolutely certain that I'll optimally stabilize a 62 -82 grain bullet, I decided on 1:7.


What do you do for BUIS?


And GREAT paint job! I've duracoated a few rifles, and I may try my hand at it one day.

On one of my nuttier days, I thought about Duracoating one with a dry-grass look and have stencils of a blue Bud-Lite Can and a McDonalds bag. I could hide in the ditch along the highway!




-- John

 

[MassMark]

JWarren

Sounds like you need to take a trip to www.troyind.com (Troy Industries)

Troy everything is good, but their BUIS are top-shelf - built like tanks. The brake is now available in a flash suppressor as well...

PS: Who is doing your build?

 

[taliv]

john, i'm running a similar setup. rifle-length YHM with the end cap covering a low-profile middy gas block. my YHM tube isn't a "quad rail" though; it's their customizable one and i've got it smooth except for a small rail on bottom to hold my VFG and a small rail on the right to hold my brass catcher, and a rail on top for no good reason.

i run a ta31F-RCO model acog on it and i don't use BUIS anymore. I know I should, but i just don't care for them so I removed them.

i think the combo looks great, but aesthetics weren't a priority for me.

i would strongly suggest a middy gas system, or if possible, a 17-18" barrel with rifle gas system.

next rifle i build (hopefully soon), I'll be going with the larue quad-rail instead of YHM.

you can see some pics of my setup in this thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2845255

 

[JWarren]

Who is doing your build?

It's a joint operation. I accidently ordered (yeah, it can happen) a stripped DPMS lower a couple weeks ago. My gun shop mentioned it was there when I was calling them to order another AR. LOL!

So, I think I am ordering an M4 Kit from Del-ton. I've spoken to them in the past about putting a rifle-length forearm on a carbine, and they said they could do it-- I just needed to place the order on the phone since it wasn't an option on their website.

In ordering a kit from them, I can get the barrel assembly pre-built without having to buy much in the way of specialized tools. Since I expect this to be my only AR build in the foreseeable future, there isn't much incintive for me to get many tools.

The only specialized tool I will need to get is a $3.95 CAR stock wrench-- and I probably need to keep on of those around.


If I built it from the ground-up, I would need to get approximately $100.00 worth of tools. Instead, I can put those funds directly into the rifle and/or ammunition.


I chose Del-ton because they are one of the more cost-effective options available, and were one of only two companies (Del-ton and CMMG) where I could get a 1:7 twist on the barrel.

I REALLY wanted to go with a Mid-length gas system on the kit as opposed to a M4 kit, but Delton didn't offer a 1:7 twist on the Mid-length kits.


The kit will have the following:

DPMS 1:7 chrome-lined barrel
DPMS flattop upper with M4 ramps
DPMS trigger group
YHM Lightweight 4 rail FF tube w/anti-rotation screws and endcap.
YHM Flip-up front and rear BUIS
M4 CAR 6 position stock
YHM Specter Gas Block

Oddly, I am ordering the kit with an adjustable palmrest pistol grip, but I want that for my LR-308. I will swap the standard grip off of my LR-308 to the AR-15.

So the rifle will be a poster-child for DPMS and YHM. I should charge them for advertising.


Later, I'll probably work with this rifle more. I just want to get it put together for the time being. My primary project at this time is the LR-308.

My next step with it will be to get the crappy 3x9x50 Simmons scope that I had laying in the bottom of my closet off of the .308. I think either a Ziess Conquest or Nikon Monarch is in its future.

Afterwards, I am adding a Magpul PRS stock. the adjustable palm-rest grip, timney trigger, and JP Recoil Eliminator to the 308.


And then-- thank the gods, I think I'll be done with rifles for a bit.


-- John

 

[JWarren]

Taliv,

You and I are definately thinking along the same lines.


-- John