AR - Dead Reliable?

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

merlinfire

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
793
So I'm considering trading something and some cash for an AR. I like the AK I have, and I like how it hasn't ever jammed. I hear a lot of talk about reliability between the two.

But from people who have owned both post-vietnam era:

How is their reliability when compared to one another? Are there certain brands of AR that are more reliable than others, and if so, which ones?
 
If the AR jams, it means it is just being broken in. :D

I have had great performance from my few. Any malfunctions that I have had have been the result of bad magazines.
 
Do you have any criteria other than it going bang every time you pull the trigger?

Neither of my AR's has failed to function, at least not since I started using a case gauge on my reloads.

I've never seen a AK used at a High Power match. I'm sure someone has tried, but they haven't caught on around here for competition shooting. To be fair, M1 Carbines aren't seen on the line either.
 
In short, the Ak was designed around a mag built to last the life of the weapon, the AR built to shoot the mag and throw it away.

The actions are equally reliable - and who makes them equally culpable in getting them right. Century is pretty well known as being the tarnish on the AK's reputation, lots of new owners have complaints of poor quality construction. Cheap ARs, not so much, what's forgotten is that you MUST use full power ammo - cheap import fodder does NOT have enough gas power to cycle the action.

What stacks up is the written press on the AK always saying how reliable it is, but they mistakenly call it that. It's durable, able to keep functioning despite being damaged. The AR suffers from bad press and ignorance, being called a jammomatic and "defecates where it eats," mostly by those who believe anecdotal stories with no real understanding of what actually stopped the weapon.

Since AK's have really good mags, they seem ultra reliable. AR's, drop a mag loaded on the feed lips, and you have problems. It's taken 45 years to wake up and blame the magazines, finally we have Pmags issued in Afghanistan, and there's little problem to report. The guns themselves, millions have been made, and millions of soldiers who've used them are equally impressed they keep running no matter what.

What colors the conversation is that the grass looks greener on the other side, let the fence sitter beware. Your neighbor has gophers, rocks, and places needing to be trimmed by hand, too. They're just in different places, you have to know where to look, and very few Americans are gunsmith level armorers who design actions. In other words, no clue.

Just look at what they drive.
 
I have owned a Romanian and Saiga AK. The Romanian was a total piece of crap with a lot of trigger slap and issues with piercing primers and jamming, I ended up selling for a loss just to get rid of it. The Saiga was much better and never malfunctioned and was fairly accurate. My first AR15 was a $599 Olympic Arms. At first it had extraction issues when the chamber got dirty after 100+ rounds, but after installing a stronger extractor spring it ran thousands of rounds without a malfunction and I eventually sold it for what I paid. I now have a Rock River/Stag hybrid that I built that runs very reliably as well.
The AR15 is a much more refined and accurate rifle than the AK. In general AKs are more tolerant to adverse conditions such as dirt/grit in the action and lack of lubrication. Well built AR15s are very reliable as long as you keep them well lubed. Any of the major manufacturers (rock river, stag, bushmaster, colt, etc.) make good ARs and it basically comes down to features that you want when choosing. These manufacturers usually chrome line the barrel and bolt which helps increase reliability when the gun gets dirty and makes the gun faster to clean after shooting.
It really all comes down to what you priorities are when choosing AR vs AK.
 
From reading....not from experience. When introduced the ARs were a new type of rifle, the army told the troops that you didnt need to clean it, when in reality the original design was very prone to jamb due to being dirty. Additionally, the first issue rifles were more like field trials. This is why many Vietnam Vets (Thanks!) hated these things. (I wouldnt be pleased performing a field trial with my Butt on the line)

Fast forward 40+ years and the design has been greatly improved / nearly perfected. If financially possible, I would save up for an AR and keep the AK.

Again from reading, AR carbine (16" M4 type) accuracy is typically about 2" at 100 yds. While from experience a decent AK can do 4". At a 100 yards this isnt a big deal but at 200+ with an ak, that becomes 8" +. Some higher end AKs improve on this a little but certainly at 200+ yards the advantage is AR for accuracy. Bullet velocity, power are another conversation.....
 
If you really want to know why after a 20+ year career in the Military I choose the AK over the AR platform go to a qualification range and watch them fire.
After every relay you will hear "Alibis Fire??" about 2% of the people at any given time will have to fire because for whatever reason their AR didn't work.
I dont have a large supply train following me wherever I go. The AR's I used in the military just weren't what without a large supply train following me, I trust the life of my family to.
I have AK's that have never failed to fire. I have never owned an AR that hasn't hiccuped.
YMMV.
Thanks
A/M
 
I have an old Colt SP1 I bought new in 1974 that has literally many, many tens of thousands of rounds through it, and its still runs fine.

I also have a couple of Armalites that have never been a problem either.

I just recently picked up a S&W M&P15, and so far its been fine.

The only one Ive had troubles with, is an older Bushmaster Dissapator, and its troubles are more in the accuracy department than anything else.

If you maintain them properly, there shouldnt be any problems, assuming the gun was built properly. Like anything else, who do you trust, one of the better, big name companys, or Billy Bob's kitchen tabe special?
 
You do know it is perfectly legal and acceptable to own both an AK and an AR right?
Why does everyone act like you can't have both? Hell you can even own a mini if you wanted to.
 
I own a Hungarian AK that has never failed to fire in over 3000 rounds.

I own a BCM midlength that has never failed to fire in over 3000 rounds (I only use Magpul and Lancer magazines).

I like both, I'm keeping both.

That said, I prefer the AR for its accuracy, ergonomics, modularity and range.
 
From Bartholomew Roberts:
The keys to proper functioning in an AR are:

1. Good ammo
2. Good magazines
3. Generous lubrication
__________________
Click to expand...
Seems that also applies to ALL such detachable magazine firearms.
 
I'm not saying that you cant have a functioning AR. Many function fine and often, but a few dont. As a general rule though you will have far fewer malfunctions with an AK.
The keys to proper functioning in an AR are:
1. Good ammo
2. Good magazines
3. Generous lubrication
Thats very true and many of us who have served in the Military have seen what happens when those three prerequisits can't be met. Sometimes thats even on a rifle range; sometimes it is in the middle of a fight.
If you maintain them properly, there shouldnt be any problems, assuming the gun was built properly. Like anything else, who do you trust, one of the better, big name companys, or Billy Bob's kitchen tabe special?
I dont own anything Billy Bob made on his kitchen table, never will. I do own several AK's though, one of them in particular is more accurate than 90% of the AR's I was issued in the Military.
I have owned a Rifle that "One of the better big name companies" built that was a total POS. A name means nothing, very clearly a name means nothing to that particular company anyway.
I'm not going to go in to a whole AR -vs- AK thing with you. Obviously you prefer the AR. I will say I have been there and done that and I still prefer an AK.
__________________

__________________
 
I actually prefer the AK's too, but I dont have a problem with the AR's either. They both work, and both will shoot if you can.

Ive owned "parts guns" of both types, and all of them seemed to require "fiddling". For the most part, I havent had the same issues with the better known "factory" guns.
 
I'm with Tirod. Other than a single time using a State Marksmanship Team rifle with a worn out mag, I have never had an AR platform rifle fail on me. Not including with blanks, those things are the devil's dumb nephew.

If you have halfway decent magazines you have nothing to worry about. If you are shooting high volume, take a few seconds to squirt some kind of lubricant onto the bolt carrier group. Continue not having problems.

My personally owned AR had no trouble with Wolf steel case, so I guess good ammo just means in spec ammo, not neccessarily beautiful handloaded jewels.
 
I carried an m16 in iraq. Other than cleaning it for 15 minutes every day after breakfast it was reliable.

Since your not in kirkuk i think the ar would be a fine weapon.

As a side note my shtf gun is an akm.

I'd like an ar because of my familiarity with the system it just isn't a priority for me.
 
I've got two ARs with multiple thousands of rounds through them with no jams that couldn't be traced back to bad ammo.

One of these guns, a JP, is my main competition rifle, and I've run it at matches in arid, high-desert climates with blowing wind, dust so bad pistol magazines stopped working, and it kept right on going.
 
I put ~10,000 through my M4 with no lube other than the initial cleaning inspection...

No jams other one major stoppage caused by a bad mag...threw that mag away ......stuck a new one in and kept on doing full auto mag dumps..no problems..

armorystuff064.jpg
 
Mags said:
You do know it is perfectly legal and acceptable to own both an AK and an AR right? Why does everyone act like you can't have both? Hell you can even own a mini if you wanted to.
Click to expand...

The voice of reason!! I have a Vz.58, four ARs and a Mini-14 and I like and use them all.

As for AR reliability, a major contributor to function issues is user error or ignorance whether it's reloading for the AR or adding/changing parts. I succumbed to user ignorance/error a few weeks back when the castle nut came loose on day one of a two-day 2-gun match. I had a couple of feeding issues because the buffer tube was loose. I fixed the problem, has zero issues on day two or at the next match or two practice sessions firing more than 300 rounds in all. A casual observer at the match might form the opinion that the AR is unreliable, my AR in particular, but in reality, it was user error.
 
The keys to proper functioning in an AR are:

1. Good ammo
2. Good magazines
3. Generous lubrication
Click to expand...

I agree with this but would also add that is assuming you are starting out with a quality AR15 in the first place. Spikes, BCM, Colt, Noveske, LMT, etc...
 
I have one very good AR, one midrange AR and a low end WASR AK. Very different rifles but all 100% reliable. Most ARs are reliable but if you're really on a budget you can get reliabilty for much less with the AK. The ideal solution though is get both.
 
Of the three times I've had an M16 and AR15 jam it was due to operator malfuntion (aligned the gas rings on bolt), bad magazine, and dented ammo (leftovers from qualification range).

Your basic AR gives you a wide selections of calibers to choose from with much better sights and accuracy than even the highest grade AK, plus the option to change calibers, stocks, sights, ect... with just a barrel wench and a screwdriver. Try that with an AK.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top