AR Nickel Boron BCG?

[BSA1]

The mailperson was nice to me today and delivered a stripped AR upper so now I need a complete BCG (.223 / 5.56).

What has the experiences been with Nickel Boron BCG’s? The prices vary greatly with the companies selling the high price ones claiming that the nickel boron will flake off more inexpensive ones. PSA is offering theirs that are MPI / HPI tested on sale for $90.00. (Not sure if it matters but this upper is a Anderson smooth side one).

For the record I have one of PSA Premium phosphate coated BCG’s that works great (and is on sale for the same price).

 

[Skylerbone]

Hasn’t been used yet but I ordered a PSA upper with NiB BCG for the girlfriend and it is slick as snot compared to a standard phosphate. May not wear like chrome which is hard to beat but it looks like good stuff, even at the cut rate price.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I have a PSA NiBo BCG in my normal range toy. Couple hundred rounds, no issues or chipping. Much smoother operation with less lube needed compared to phosphate.

I would not be afraid of PSA's NiBo. Another option is AIM surplus. Their branded BCG will probably be my next one to try out for quality on a budget.

 

[entropy]

I like the Alex Arms Nickel Boron BCG I put in my pistol, but I've only fired maybe 100 rounds so far. The finish makes for easy cleaning, I will say that.

 

[ScrapMetalSlug]

I’ve got a nickel boron bcg from PSA in a recent build I did, and I like it. Only a few hundred rounds so far, but no issues. Seems slicker, easier to clean, and looks cool too.

 

[giggitygiggity]

I have the AIM Surplus nickel boron BCGs in three of my rifles and they are exceptional. They are $100 shipped, but AIM has 10% off around major holidays.

 

[taliv]

i've got the ones from right to bear, but not more than say 1000 rounds on any of them. seem to be working fine, and super cheap

they even sell the fail zero ones for like $110

 

[ColoradoMinuteMan]

I've never purchased one on purpose but I ordered a phosphate treated .308 BCG from an online dealer for a really good deal on Black Friday. For some reason they sent me NiB. I emailed them to return it and they said they were out of phosphate but would let me keep what have for the same price as phosphate. They had no idea how long the backorder would be so I just kept it. It operates fine, but I really see no advantage over phosphate. It is slightly easier to clean perhaps but I've never had an issue cleaning phosphate treated metal. It hasn't had any issues but I honestly don't see the advantage of them, particularly considering the risk of flaking. I know some say it won't happen, but any "coating" can flake off, and NiB is a coating unlike phosphate.

 

[js8588]

I'd go with this https://gun.deals/product/sharps-xp...on-coated-17995-shipped-w-code-sharps10-17995

DLC seems superior to NiB.

 

[DoubleMag]

I have a PSA NiBo BCG in my normal range toy. Couple hundred rounds, no issues or chipping. Much smoother operation with less lube needed compared to phosphate.

And yes you still have to use lube, correct. My rule of thumb is anytime two dissimilar metals contact , use lube. That said yes as others have stated it's a LOT slicker then traditional mag-phosphate coating. I have never heard in my circles of the finish coming off, perhaps those few anecdotals didn't use any lube, not enough etc.? Shucks I ran into a buddy shooting at local range who didn't lube his traditional mag-ph. coated BCG. Got him on tha straight n narrow on that!

I would not be scared of PSA NiB BCG as mentioned and TODAY is sale day. I think (presume) PSA has a lifetime warranty on their BCGs? Next big sales push is Fathers Day, then July 4th. I would guess those sales would be similar, not any less or more $$.

A happy in-between would be nitrided finish perhaps? Although it is IMHO you would be purrfectly happy with the NiB and to emphasize, you would purchase a NiB BCG as a future build, once owning one.


Good luck

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Not all Nickel Boron is the same. The best on the market is the FailZero EXO Nickel Boron BCG. Compared to standard Nickel Boron, would be like comparing standard Nickel Boron to mag-phosphate coating.
http://www.primaryarms.com/failzero-exo-coated-m16-cut-complete-bolt-carrier-group-009-fzm16-4-01-nh
Aim does have great deals on their BCG's. They buy them from different companies. They have a EXO Nickel Boron BCG that is $40 less then FailZero, and I think FailZero makes it fro them.
https://www.aimsurplus.com/product....10+NIB+EXO+MPI+Bolt+Carrier+Group&groupid=723
I have rifles with different BCG's, mag-phosphate, Black Nitride, Nickel Boron and EXO Nickel Boron.
Of all the FailZero EXO Nickel Boron BCG is the slickest and easiest to clean. The reg. Nickel Boron BCG is a little easier to clean then the Balck Nitride. The part of the BCG that gets the most carbon buildup it the bolt stem. the one that takes the most effert to clean is the mag-phosphate.
About a year or two ago AIM got in a bad batch of Nickel Boron BCG's. They started flaking after a few hundred rounds. AIM only has a 30 day warranty in store, but they made things right with the BCG's that had the bad finishes.
But hands down I like the Black Nitride BCG's the best. The surface is harden by the treatment, and they wear less and are slicker then mag-phosphate.

 

[BSA1]

Thank you for the comments so far. Based on the research I have done on other forums the opinions are:

Phosphate - rougher finish soaks up and holds oil better. The rails will polished over several thousand rounds becoming very slick. The rails can be polished manually to speed up the process.

Black Nitride - smooth slick surface.

NiB - smooth slick plating that easily cleans up.

The biggest disadvantage with the B.N. and NiB is that do to being slick they do not hold oil well to their surface. I have not found much actual claims of NiB chipping.

 

[BSA1]

GunnyUSMC thank you for the information. Being a slow typist you posted while I was still pecking away. I am leaning towards the Black Nitride simply because I like black in black better. However as addictive as building AR's is becoming NiB may (probably) end up in a future one so I need to educate myself as much as possible.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Thank you for the comments so far. Based on the research I have done on other forums the opinions are:

Phosphate - rougher finish soaks up and holds oil better. The rails will polished over several thousand rounds becoming very slick. The rails can be polished manually to speed up the process.

Black Nitride - smooth slick surface.

NiB - smooth slick plating that easily cleans up.

The biggest disadvantage with the B.N. and NiB is that do to being slick they do not hold oil well to their surface. I have not found much actual claims of NiB chipping.

Sometimes you have to think about the information that is posted on the internet.
# Phosphate = Rougher finish. Will hold oil better because, it needs to. Other then oil getting into the pores in the surface of the metal, metal does not soak up oil. Phosphate BCG's tend to need more oil, they like to be wet. When the Phosphate finish rubs off, you have bare metal.
# Black Nitride - smooth slick surface. Also a harder surface. It's a metal treatment. The black color is a result of the process left on the surface. When the black wears off, you still have treated metal.
# The biggest disadvantage with the B.N. and NiB is that do to being slick they do not hold oil well to their surface. You can run a Nitride or NIB BCG wet just like any other BCG, they just don't need as much oil due to their smoother finish.
I have bought several brands of BCG's. The first Niteide BCG I used was from Crosshill Technology. I believed they were bought up by OMEGA Manufacturing which is the Wholesale side of Delta Team Tactical. DTT is also the distributor of Davidson Defense. I have also used the Davidson Defense Nitride BCG's. Both of these BCG have been very slick with the metal finish being very smooth.
https://www.deltateamtactical.com/Bolt_c_109.html
I have an Odin Works Nitride BCG in one of my rifles. It is the slickest Nitride BCG I have.
I bought BCG's from Surplus Ammo. I believe they buy their BCG's from Tool Craft. If your looking for that BCG that's a little different, check them out.
http://www.surplusammo.com/categories/ar-15-parts/bolt-carrier-groups.html
The only BCG that I don't care for are from Radical Firearms. My buddy bought one of their complete rifles about two years ago and it just would cycle. I checked out the rifle and the BCG just didn't look well made. I had an extra Davidson Defense Nitride BCG so we put it in his rifle and it worked perfect. Radical Firearms states that they make all their rifle parts in house. They may have gotten better at making BCG's by now, but I'm not sure.
Now Brownell's has a lot of BCG's and give you a lifetime warranty on anything you buy from them.

 

[RussellC]

I have a PSA NiBo BCG in my normal range toy. Couple hundred rounds, no issues or chipping. Much smoother operation with less lube needed compared to phosphate.

I would not be afraid of PSA's NiBo. Another option is AIM surplus. Their branded BCG will probably be my next one to try out for quality on a budget.

I have used several of Aim Surplus NiBo pieces with no troubles at all.

Russellc

 

[someguy2800]

I prefer black nitride parts due to the nice semi gloss black appearance and smoothness, and because of it being very hard and wear resistant. I don’t care for the look or feel of phosphate finishes.

 

[BSA1]

How important is HPI?

There are a lot of very affordable choices that have only been MPI tested.

 

[Coal Dragger]

There are debates about high pressure (HP) testing of barrels and bolts. The view of many industry professionals in the engineering and metallurgy fields is that high pressure testing of those two parts, the bolt in particular, can actually lead to a shorter life since damage may be done to the part even though no cracks form, since the stress applied still strains the grain structure of the metal. High pressure testing is considered a form of potentially destructive testing.

Metal inspection technology and costs have come a long way since the early to mid 1960’s when parts of the M16/M4 TDP were first implemented. Now radiographic inspection of parts like a barrel or bolt is more economical than it was 50 years ago. A radiographic inspection is highly likely to find inclusions, cracks, or other flaws in a part with no need to stress it significantly beyond what it was made to do. In my industry radiographic inspection is now the standard for inspection of equipment and track, every mile of rail and every wheel and axle are subject to periodic inspections.

Keep in mind a high pressure test is followed by a magnetic particle inspection, so the part gets highly stressed, then it is magnetized and exposed to very fine powder that will stick to the surface of the part and clearly show cracks. The engineers back in the day figured out that a barrel or bolt that was made of clean material and properly hardened could fire a proof round and then pass a magnetic particle test. If flaws in the material, or heat treatment were present cracking would be revealed. At the time this was the most economical means of testing these parts to ensure quality control.

A magnetic particle inspection by itself of a non high pressure tested bolt or barrel will be of more limited value, but at least could reveal extremely shoddy materials or heat treatment.

Having said all that, for most buyers like us the HP/MPI bolts and barrels are still the way to go unless the part manufacturer advertises radiographic inspection of those parts. If you’re buying a bolt carrier from a bargain bin retailer/wholesaler and they don’t specify any inspection at all it’s probably safe to assume you’re buying a hobby grade part. They’re trying to sell at a low price point and HP/MPI or radiographic inspection adds cost in inspection and loss rate for defects.

Most places that sell really nice parts want you to know they’re really nice parts, and will usually tout the material and quality control inspections. They want you to know you’re getting a Carpenter 158 bolt that has been HP/MPI inspected or radiographed, or if’s a barrel they want you to know it CMV 4150 steel with the same tests performed.

The only exceptions I can think of to the above wanting the customer to know about tests and materials of top notch products are Lewis Machine & Tool, and Knight’s Armament Company. Both of those companies, who have a close working relationship evidently, are mum on bolt materials or testing. Knight’s is also cagey on what they’re using for an alloy to hammer forge barrels from (testing of one barrel showed it still shooting 1 MOA after 20K rounds). The Knight’s E3 bolt and LMT enhanced bolt are both significant departures in materials and design from a standard AR bolt.

Rumor is that they’re both made from AerMet 100 which is about the strongest steel alloy that can reasonably be machined for that part, and has the highest resistance to cracking of any of the AerMet alloys (all of which have insane mechanical properties). I mention this, specifically the LMT, because even though the material is not listed nor is any testing, the LMT bolt is compatible with standard AR/M4 barrel extensions (KAC is proprietary). To my knowledge there have been no reported failures of an LMT or KAC E3 bolt in the wild. So if a guy was curious why those parts cost so much, that is why.

 

[BSA1]

Just bring this thread up-to-date. I took advantage of Father's Day Sale and ordered a complete Black Nitride BCG from Aero Precision. They don't brag about the bolt being made of 158 Carpenter steel or Grade 8 hex screws but it looks to be a high quality bcg.

I plan on putting it first in my .223 Wylde AR for testing. As some of you may know I have not been impressed with the accuracy of this gun so trying this bcg may be interesting.

This does not mean I will not be getting a Nickel Boron bcg in the future. To the contrary. As I am acquiring the parts for build #4 I will be needing another bcg and I am a sucker for sales.

Thank all of you for your comments.

 

[carbine85]

Nitride is all you need. Nitride has been around for 50 years. There's no need for the Nickle unless the price is the same. I have several Aim Surplus Nitride BCG including a 7.62x39. They make a better good BCG