AR-sights

[dirtykid]

I decided to drag my Bushmaster XM-15 out of gun case and took my 3x9-50 Nikon i had on it and put that on my Savage-17HMR,Now im stuck with factory iron sights,ICK ! I want to teach my 2-youngest how to run this gun and i would like a mil-dot scope with the ability to use some better-quality iron sights as back-up (so their proficent with either) I would REALLY like to see a Trijicon sitting on top of there but dont have the budget for that currently, I got about $300 i could spend on it right now (unless i skip 2-weeks of groceries) which is tempting,but not well-recieved by spousal-unit, SO (1) What off-brand's of Trij could you guys recommend ?
AND (2) is there something better than the ghost-ring sights my Bushmaster came with ?
AND (3) Why dont i see Bushmaster's even mentioned on this forum ?/ Were they just a fad i bought into ?

 

[MrCleanOK]

If you really want your kids to get the most benefit out of this, I would recommend sinking that $300 into ammo and range fees, and let them learn to shoot irons.

The AR-15 iron sights are some of the best irons out there. They're easy to use, and effective. You probably don't see a lot of mention of Bushmasters here because there are a lot of other AR-15 manufacturers out there, and Bushmaster just isn't one of the better ones. They used to have a really big name when the market was smaller, but now that everybody and their dog is making AR-15s, a Bushy just isn't anything to write home about.

 

[henschman]

Trijicon doesn't to my knowledge make a mil dot scope. Their accupoint scopes have an illuminated post reticle. Their ACOG scopes have a ranging/BDC reticle. If you are wanting something that has a similar ranging/BDC reticle to an ACOG, you might check out the Burris XTR 1-4x scopes. I think they actually have some mil lines on the reticle too, so that might be about perfect for what you want.

 

[matrem]

I would recommend sinking that $300 into ammo and range fees, and let them learn to shoot irons.

This.

 

[wnycollector]

If you really want your kids to get the most benefit out of this, I would recommend sinking that $300 into ammo and range fees, and let them learn to shoot irons.

Another vote for this recommendation.

 

[Robert]

Irons first, optics later.

 

[Tommygunn]

You probably don't see a lot of mention of Bushmasters here because there are a lot of other AR-15 manufacturers out there, and Bushmaster just isn't one of the better ones

Bushies are not top notch like Noveske or BCM but they are very good middle of the road ARs. They are easy enough to modify to take care of most of the "non mil-spec" problems like staked gas keys.


Burris makes a red dot with 3X magnification called an AR-332, which sells at @ $300. The reticle is green, red, or with the power off, black, so even with a dead battery it will work.
And iron sights should be used so you know how, too. ;-)

 

[chrome_austex]

The A2 irons are great, yet irons aren't for everybody.

How are you going to be shooting it? offhand? sling? sandbags? bipods? Kids could probably use a lighter gun (and scope) than adults.

Perhaps a leupold 2-7x. You don't really need a ranging reticule to be a junior marksman. Plenty of time for that later.

 

[Rmiller31]

Might check out the Burris Tac30 1-4. You can find them for 299$ online.

 

[tangomike706]

Another vote for using the irons . Only brand of sights I would reccomend avoiding is NCSTAR. I've had nothing but problems with them.

There are plenty of red-dot sights selling for less than 300.00, if thats what your looking for .

 

[Hal30378]

I too must vote for ensuring he is schooled in irons first.

I am considering purchasing a Mueller Quick Shot that was recommended by a friend that swears by the company. It cost roughly $120, but am not sure, as I am very compfortable with the irons. The written reviews for Mueller optics I have seen are favorable and my buddy shoots their scopes on his rifles, swearing by the Mueller line.

If anyone has any recommendations on the Mueller Quick Shot please advise.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I would go with irons first.

Primary Arms makes the best clones at affordable prices.
http://primaryarms.com/category.sc?categoryId=419

Nikon has the M223 on sale with a free $100 mount as a package. MidwayUSA has the best prices I have seen.

 

[Pete D.]

irons

Another vote for using the irons .

And yet another vote for irons first. A simple change that you can make is to upgrade the standard A2 sights with a National Match rear for finer adjustments.
From DPMS or Brownells, among others.
Pete

 

[gotigers]

Irons first. I would reccomend an Apples Seed event for you and you boys. They will teach you the fundamentals of shooting with irons. Learning with irons teaches you much more than POA/POI.

Once done with irons there are plenty of nice scopes. The Primary Arms mentioned above < $200, the Weaver 1-3x < $200 (what i have), Millet DMS +/-$250, Burris TAC-30 +/-$300, Nikon, Trijicon, etc.

I personally like fine cross hairs for < 4x. Mill dots for > 4x The Nikon M223 is nice. I don't care for most illuminated reticles. Some of the illuminated red dots cover the target at 100 yards. The Trijicons are the only illuminated scopes i like. Neither do i care for the very busy BDC reticles. The Burris TAC-30 is OK.

For AR mounts, Primary arms has one for $50, Burris PEPR $80 (this is what i use) and LaRue makes a great mount.

 

[Zerodefect]

I decided to drag my Bushmaster XM-15 out of gun case and took my 3x9-50 Nikon i had on it and put that on my Savage-17HMR,Now im stuck with factory iron sights,ICK ! I want to teach my 2-youngest how to run this gun and i would like a mil-dot scope with the ability to use some better-quality iron sights as back-up (so their proficent with either) I would REALLY like to see a Trijicon sitting on top of there but dont have the budget for that currently, I got about $300 i could spend on it right now (unless i skip 2-weeks of groceries) which is tempting,but not well-recieved by spousal-unit, SO (1) What off-brand's of Trij could you guys recommend ?
AND (2) is there something better than the ghost-ring sights my Bushmaster came with ?
AND (3) Why dont i see Bushmaster's even mentioned on this forum ?/ Were they just a fad i bought into ?

1) The Super sniper 10x is alot of scope for $300ish.

2) Not really, I'm not a huge fan of AR irons. I allways wish the sights were further away. Like on an AK or M1. I shoot those better with irons, which is good 'cause IMO that's the only way those two should be shot.

3) Bushmaster costs as much as what used to be more expensive rifles. Now we can get BCM, Spikes, and allmost Colt at similar price levels. It deosn't mean Bushy is any worse than they ever been, nothing really wrong with them aside from extractor springs IME, but today I can get a even better rifle for only a little bit more $.

And Bushy screwed up the Masada, some of us are still miffed about that.

 

[dirtykid]

Ok,so i took majorities advice and took youngest to range tonite,(13yr old) I hate those iron-sights ! maybe it's because i wear contacts or something but i can get my eye to focus on front post but rear ring is fuzzy and hard to keep front post centered in picture.
My boy however must have the advantage of those young-eyes cause after 10-rounds he's grouping them together about 3-inches apart at 50-yards ! had a couple guys ask me how long he's been shooting the rifle and i had to tell them "about 10-minutes" I popped a 30-rd mag in and was able to drill a hole almost thru 10-ring with many shots touching each-other at 25-yards,, so then my next question , Ihad the rear-sight all the way to the back-notch on rail, if i moved it forward a couple "notches" would that improve rear-ring image ? I just thought of this when i got home and wont be able to try it until i go buy some new parts ( rear-ward gas ring was worn badly to the point it actually bent ) Is this a symptom of the "staked" bolt someone mentioned in design-flaws or considered normal wear ? sorry so many questions but i've only run about 1200-rounds thru this gun,bolt has been dis-assembled/cleaned about every 200-300 rounds and i havn't notice this wear before ..

 

[MrCleanOK]

The rear sight is supposed to be fuzzy, as is the target. The human eye can only focus on one distance at a time, and for using iron sights the most important plane to focus on is the front sight. "Scopes" play a funny trick on your eyeball to get the crosshairs and target in focus at the same time, but with irons you only get one.

If you look at the rear sight, it has two apertures. One is a large hole, marked 0-2. That is the low-light/short-range aperture. You can see more light, and less of the ring. In daylight, and at any distance past 50m or so, you want to use the smaller aperture. It allows less light through, and the ring appears heavier. It makes no difference that the ring appears "fuzzy", your brain will still be able to put the tip of the front sight post in the center of it. There are some boutique "diamond shaped" apertures out there, but the good ol' round ones have been working just fine for a long time.

All the way to the rear of the receiver is the correct place for the rear sight. And conventional AR-15 marksmanship wisdom is to touch the tip of your nose to the charging handle. This helps index your eye at the right distance and position behind the aperture to get a consistent sight picture every time. Granted, everybody is sized and shaped differently so it doesn't work for everybody, but it's a good place to start from.

 

[Tommygunn]

...gas ring was worn badly to the point it actually bent ) Is this a symptom of the "staked" bolt someone mentioned in design-flaws or considered normal wear ?

No. If the gas ring was "bent" (I don't know how this could happen if we're thinking of the same part) then there's something else going on. You will need to replace the gas rings -- which should be three in number.
The "staked bolt" really means the gas key, which is that little tube that sits on top of the front of the bolt carrier. It's held on by two hex nuts. Each side of both these should have peening marks that portrude the metal onto the sides of the bolts.
One problem a number of ARs have is these are done too lightly and this allows these nuts to back out over time as the weapon is fired. This loosens the key so eventually it won't mate correctly with the gas tube in the rifle and the gun jams.
If you look at the gas key and the staking doesn't seem right it is an easy fix. A gunsmith familiar with ARs can do it, there are tools sold by companies like Brownell's that allow you to do it, and even many tools people have at home can do in a pinch.
This is one of the points that some people believe distinguishes midroad ARs from the top line ones like Noveske, Colt, BCM and other top tier ARs. If you buy a Colt it will most likely be properly staked from the factory.
There are other points that distinguish top tier from lower tier rifles but some of them are relatively meaningless. The staking thing is, however, important for reliability reasons.

 

[henschman]

Another vote for going to an Appleseed!

Granted, I am an Appleseed instructor so I may not be the most unbiased source, , but I really do believe that it is the best way for you and your boys to learn proper rifle marksmanship from field positions and to learn the fundamentals, such as the steps to firing a shot (the first two of which are sight alignment and sight picture). And since it is a volunteer organization, it is inexpensive to attend (only $70 for you, and children under 21 attend free). www.appleseedinfo.org

 

[CraigC]

...rear ring is fuzzy and hard to keep front post centered in picture.

On that note, I'd recommend learning to use iron sights yourself and then teaching your youngin. Or go to an Appleseed and learn together.

Your eyeball will automatically center the front post in the aperture. Do not try to focus on the rear sight, do not concentrate on centering it. Forget about the rear sight. Focus on the front sight and only the front sight.