AR15 handguards : drop in vs. free float
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Depend on your type of shooting, barrel length etc. If you're plinking at 100 or so yards with the standard 16 inch barrel probably not. If you're doing precision shooting at 150+ yards with a heavy barrel and match ammo probably. Not enough here to go on for a definite answer.
kaferhaus
Member
M4s are "carbines".... light weight short barrels. Free float handguards are for accuracy work. Not worth the bother because you'll see no improvement.
kwelz
Member
Kaferhaus you are incorrect. Free Float tubes do show an improvement in carbines. Mainly because barrel length is not really a determining factor of accuracy.
Free Float tubes do help with accuracy, as well as helping keep heat away from the hands and assisting in barrel harmonics.
Free Float tubes do help with accuracy, as well as helping keep heat away from the hands and assisting in barrel harmonics.
Redlg155
Member
Most rifles do see an improvementg in accuracy when the barrel is free floated, however, A lot depends on barrel quality and ammunition used. Barrel length is a lesser factor as I've seen 16" barrels outshoot 20" on numerous occasions.
It all depends on what type of shooting you will be doing and your sighting system. If you typically shoot at 100 yards or less, rapid fire with a 4moa red dot, you won't see many advantages. If you want to shoot longer distances with a good sighting system and match quality ammo, you will see an advantage.
The one bonus of a removable rail system is that it is a lot easier to clean and lubricate under the handguards.
On a side note, shooting a sub moa group in an AR, or any rifle for that matter is more the exception rather than the norm.
It all depends on what type of shooting you will be doing and your sighting system. If you typically shoot at 100 yards or less, rapid fire with a 4moa red dot, you won't see many advantages. If you want to shoot longer distances with a good sighting system and match quality ammo, you will see an advantage.
The one bonus of a removable rail system is that it is a lot easier to clean and lubricate under the handguards.
On a side note, shooting a sub moa group in an AR, or any rifle for that matter is more the exception rather than the norm.
kaferhaus
Member
A M4 Carbine barrel is SKINNY and short. That combination are not conducive to producing a accurate barrel by my measure.
I've built dozens of across the course ARs that are .5 MOA rifles or less.
And just how does a free float tube 'assist" with "barrel harmonics" on a short skinny barreled rifle? I really want to know the answer to that one. All it does is allow the barrel to vibrate in a bit more of a uniform way.... but you've still got a gas block and gas tube running back to the upper that's upsetting all kinds of harmonic consistency.
On a heavy barrel rifle the free float tube helps to some degree. On a skinny whippy barrel that's moving in a wide elipse every time it's fired there's no measurable difference.
Compare some ultra slow motion film of the muzzle movement of the carbine barrel vs a bull barrel and it will become apparent to you.
I don't care what the guy does with his rifle but don't encourage him to spend money on something that is of very dubious benefit to him.
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Do free floats work? Most precision rifles do NOT have a sling swivel attached to the barrel. The stock is cut clear to prevent any contact in most cases. That is what improves accuracy, removing the stress from the sling.
How much MOA improvement is there for the cost? Nobody has yet quantified it, they just keep saying it does. Frankly, buying precision ammo might do as much, without all the work. Adding better optics can tighten up the shooter, too. Where you get the most improvement for the dollar spent is what counts overall.
The issue M4 is a 2MOA spec gun, will a free float for $200+ installed give you as much effective accuracy as a red dot or 2X optic for the same money? In reality, not using a tight sling could do as much, right? You wouldn't be stressing the barrel, it would just be resting on the handguard. The shoulder supports one end, a hand the other, and the grip give the trigger finger some place to hang. It's the sling that bends things and creates a need for a free float, tactically or precision.
IOBC 4-83, we just took the slings off. Less fuss or muss. Plenty of us qualified expert, it's the shooter first, then the gun. Modern shooters claim that is heresy, but I gotta ask, are they selling something, or just convincing themselves the expense was worth it? I think we are confusing the urban CQB role with full battle rattle and prisoner handling with what is needed in ground combat. Having trained Infantry and MP, I know it's two different jobs.
Free floats on M4's are about the rails. The Army issues a side sling swivel that clamps to the sight base, it's obvious an accuracy improvement wasn't the point.
How much MOA improvement is there for the cost? Nobody has yet quantified it, they just keep saying it does. Frankly, buying precision ammo might do as much, without all the work. Adding better optics can tighten up the shooter, too. Where you get the most improvement for the dollar spent is what counts overall.
The issue M4 is a 2MOA spec gun, will a free float for $200+ installed give you as much effective accuracy as a red dot or 2X optic for the same money? In reality, not using a tight sling could do as much, right? You wouldn't be stressing the barrel, it would just be resting on the handguard. The shoulder supports one end, a hand the other, and the grip give the trigger finger some place to hang. It's the sling that bends things and creates a need for a free float, tactically or precision.
IOBC 4-83, we just took the slings off. Less fuss or muss. Plenty of us qualified expert, it's the shooter first, then the gun. Modern shooters claim that is heresy, but I gotta ask, are they selling something, or just convincing themselves the expense was worth it? I think we are confusing the urban CQB role with full battle rattle and prisoner handling with what is needed in ground combat. Having trained Infantry and MP, I know it's two different jobs.
Free floats on M4's are about the rails. The Army issues a side sling swivel that clamps to the sight base, it's obvious an accuracy improvement wasn't the point.
possum
Member
if i was building an SPR, a RECCE rifle, or a 20 model for accuracy at longer ranges then yes i would go with a free float tube. I have no need for them on a 16" barrel, but that also has to do with the context in which i train and have my ar for, which is HD. I don't recommend them on the 16" guns, and i have talked alot of folks out of them for builds and they are happy that they saved the money, and they now understand why they thought they needed them but really didn't.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Here is my experience:
I owned a Bushmaster 16" HBAR 1:9. At the time, I was doing most of my shooting from a bench for accuracy - 5 round groups of Santa Barbara SS109 62gr. I added a Knights Free Float Rail and a Magpul M93 stock to the rifle and made no other changes. Immediately, I shot about 0.5" tighter groups at 100yds and on average continued to shoot about 0.5" better than I had in the previous year.
Others who have tried to quantify this seem to be getting similar results. For example see:
http://ar15barrels.com/tech/freefloat.jpg (from Molon at AR15.com/M4Carbine.net)
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/new_products/RS_floatfree_200804/index.html
Of course, keep in mind that this is from a very stable position doing everything possible to maxmize accuracy. If you don't plan on doing a lot of your shooting that way, you probably aren't going to see that half inch of improvement.
So whether it is worth $X to do it is going to be a very individual decision. For some people it will be; but for most, the answer is probably no.
I owned a Bushmaster 16" HBAR 1:9. At the time, I was doing most of my shooting from a bench for accuracy - 5 round groups of Santa Barbara SS109 62gr. I added a Knights Free Float Rail and a Magpul M93 stock to the rifle and made no other changes. Immediately, I shot about 0.5" tighter groups at 100yds and on average continued to shoot about 0.5" better than I had in the previous year.
Others who have tried to quantify this seem to be getting similar results. For example see:
http://ar15barrels.com/tech/freefloat.jpg (from Molon at AR15.com/M4Carbine.net)
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/new_products/RS_floatfree_200804/index.html
Of course, keep in mind that this is from a very stable position doing everything possible to maxmize accuracy. If you don't plan on doing a lot of your shooting that way, you probably aren't going to see that half inch of improvement.
So whether it is worth $X to do it is going to be a very individual decision. For some people it will be; but for most, the answer is probably no.
kwelz
Member
My experience has been the same as Mr. Roberts.
Taking that tension off the mid point of the barrel helps a lot.
Taking that tension off the mid point of the barrel helps a lot.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
I'm a fan of free float tubes. Not only for the general accuracy enhancement that can be found, but if you shoot from a lot of field positions where you're putting pressure on the gun at odd angles, a free-float tube is invaluable in helping to make sure that the gun shoots consistently, whether you're shooting from prone, or from a braced position at an odd angle.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
It seems to me that a skinny barrel would be more sensitive to changes in sling tension than a thick barrel would, because the skinny barrel is less resistant to bending (more POI shift for a given amount of sling tension, for example). So for for a given barrel length, I would think you'd see a bigger improvement in FF vs. non-FF for a skinny barrel vs. a thick barrel.
possum
Member
it all comes down to the context in which you are going to use your carbine. that will or won't make it worth it too you.
Zerodefect
member
Uh Oh, you didn't.
Rifle length rails allow you to reach out further on the forearm for a more steady grip stance.
They also allow you to maintain that grip and operate a flash light at the same time. You should only have to move your thumb up a little to hit your light button, not your whole hand.
Especially important when your AR has the added weight of a flashlight up front. +sling loop+laser+AFG or handstop or vert grip+nightvision
Very hard to control a heavy AR with carbine length forearms or a "magwell grip".
Also carbine length non freefloat rails or drop in DD Omega rails get cramped fast.
Longer 16" AR's are making a huge comeback.
I have also built quite a few sub MOA ARs and on many of them, I used what you call short and skinny barrels. In my experience, short or skinny has nothing to do with the accuracy potential of a barrel. My last 16" build was based on a bcm M4 profile 1:8 twist barrel and that thing would put 20 rounds in a single string into about 1" at 100 yards. That's quite a feat for any barrel.
To me, accuracy is a mark of consistency. Having a barrel free of outside influences or at least minimizing those influences increases consistency. This is what free floating a barrel does. The question isn't whether free floating a barrel promotes accuracy. The question should be whether this increase in accuracy will be realized by the shooter. If you like to shoot off hand at 100 yards using a sling shooting at clay pigeons, you might benefit from going free float. If your shooting style doesn't put any undue pressure on the barrel and you are shooting at relatively large targets, you may not notice the difference.
My beater carbine is a 14.5" that I carry in the woods, or where ever, using a single point sling and I usually just shoot it off hand, so mine wears a standard set of MOE guards. I doubt that free floating would do that rifle much good.
Well I am going to put it like this; I have 5 AR's. Some of them are free floated, some are not. I did notice POI shift with and without. I also noticed a slight improvement in accuracy but not a lot. All have good barrels and range from 16", to 20" , to 24". All have different twist rates and most are different calibers.
IMHO if you are just a plinker and shooting less than 200 yards then no it is not worth spending the extra cash because even the ones I have without free float tubes shoot pretty darn good.
What I found improved accuracy more than anything else on my AR's was handloading ammo taylored for each rifle.
IMHO if you are just a plinker and shooting less than 200 yards then no it is not worth spending the extra cash because even the ones I have without free float tubes shoot pretty darn good.
What I found improved accuracy more than anything else on my AR's was handloading ammo taylored for each rifle.
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