Ar15 midlength jamming

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...The first time shooting it I put it on an factory built LMT rifle lower with A2 receiver extension, buffer and spring. It was basically a single shot. It might cycle a shot or two but most of the time it would not pick up the next round. I was shooting federal lake city 55 grain ammo and using USGI OK industries magazines in excellent condition. I attributed this to the reduced power of the midlength along with the rifle buffer and spring.
A 16 inch middy isn't reduced in power. In fact, an over-sized gas port will make a 16inch middy grossly over gassed even with underpowered ammo. Federal XM193 55 gr isn't underpowered.

The rifle buffer and spring is the baseline using 5.56 spec ammo. If a rifle buffer is "too heavy" there is a problem with the gas drive- undersized gas port, leak or blockage in the system, under powered ammo.

Second time out with it I used a factory LMT car15 lower with an unmarked (I would assume standard weight) buffer that came with the lower from the factory. I only fired 20 or so rounds through it this time and it worked great. I was using the same Lake City 55 grain but this time a magpul gen 2 magazine.

Yesterday was my third time out and this time I was using UMC yellow box .223 along with the same magpul magazine and LMT Car15 lower. I was having the same problem as the first time with it failing to pick up the next round from the magazine along with one “bolt over base” jam.
UMC Yellow Box 223 might be under powered.

The usual causes for a bolt over base is a out of spec extractor or the BCG returning with too little speed.

An out of spec extractor will lose control of the spent case which will block the fresh round from feeding from the mag. Sometimes the spent case will exit the ejection port after it's done its dirty work. 90% of the time a new extractor spring is the right fix. The other 10% will be due to an out of spec extractor.

PRO TIP: Replace the BCM extractor spring now with a Colt or Sprinco M4 extractor spring. It'll save you a lot of trouble in the long run. No O ring.

A slow carrier will strip the round from the mag, but isn't fast enough to juggle it into the chamber. A slow carrier will bump the round out of the mag but without imparting enough speed to the round to prevent it from riding up nose high. With a nose high attitude, the tip of the bullet catches on the barrel extension forcing the base down. The bolt rides up over the rim and crushes the round, jamming up the works. Replace the action spring.

PRO TIP: Use a Sprinco green spring in the rifle RE assembly. Use either a Sprinco hot white or blue spring in the carbine RE assembly.

So is the system not getting enough gas to push the bolt back far enough to pick up the next round? Meaning I need a lighter recoil spring.

The last thing you need is a lighter spring. If the AR is short stroking with Federal XM193, there's a leak or blockage in the system.

Or is the bolt moving so fast that the magazine can’t push up the next round in time? Meaning I need a H1 or H2 buffer.
The speed of the carrier would have to be really excessive and the spring in the mag very weak for the BCG to outrun the mag.

The H2 buffer is the right buffer. H1s work well, but the H2 is the standard. The carbine buffer is too light.

Perform a lock back check using the lower with the rifle buffer and Federal XM193 ammo. If it doesn't lock back, try another BCG that's known to work properly. If it locks back with a good BCG, replace the gas rings of your BCG and try again. If again it doesn't lock back, the gas key leaks or the gas tube at the receiver end is out of spec (worn or too small in diameter).

PRO TIP: The gas key screws can be properly torqued and still have a leaky key.

If the AR fails to lock back with a good BCG, there is a leak or blockage. The leak is either where the gas tube meets the gas key, where the gas key goes into the gas block or the gas block isn't sealing at the gas port. If there's a blockage, it's either in the gas tube, the gas block is misaligned with the gas port or the port is too small. I had one barrel where the gas port was mis-located and would not line up with the passage in the gas block- a neat trick consider how large the diameter of the passage is!

Do not worry about ejection patterns. Ejection patterns will tell you nothing useful about the gas drive. (It can be useful in identifying a failing extractor, however.)
 
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One can measure things pretty well without the need for specific tools. Method goes a long way.
I doubt this gas port deal an issue of ten thousandths.
LOL

Could be the bbls gas port. Could be the fsb or an assembly issue of forward components. Could be something going on rearward.

I dunno. My crap aint fancy and it runs
But Im OCD. Carryover from working in adv development and metallurgical labs ;)
 
I really appreciate everyone’s responses!

I won’t be able to make it out to the range for another week or so but my plan is to try out a few different bolts. I have a factory Colt and LMT BCG as well as an LMT enhanced BCG. While I’m at it I might as well check the ejection pattern as well. I also have a buffer marked HH that came with my KAC SBR SR15s. Might as well throw that in there for a couple rounds. Ill try whatever I can before removing the FSB.

I guess with the precision of modern machining these days I wouldn’t think it would be necessary to check gas port size before putting together a rifle. I will for sure be checking it if I ever do another build though!

I’ll keep everyone posted when I get back from the range.

Thanks,

Dan
 
I really appreciate everyone’s responses!

I won’t be able to make it out to the range for another week or so but my plan is to try out a few different bolts. I have a factory Colt and LMT BCG as well as an LMT enhanced BCG. While I’m at it I might as well check the ejection pattern as well. I also have a buffer marked HH that came with my KAC SBR SR15s. Might as well throw that in there for a couple rounds. Ill try whatever I can before removing the FSB.

I guess with the precision of modern machining these days I wouldn’t think it would be necessary to check gas port size before putting together a rifle. I will for sure be checking it if I ever do another build though!

I’ll keep everyone posted when I get back from the range.

Thanks,

Dan

Dan, let me be more clear in the thinking there. It’s a good idea to have a general reference of the size of your gas port, IN CASE a problem arises. Because there is a point where it just AINT the gas port! If your 16” midlength gas barrel in 5.56 already has the larger .081” gas port, then it should not be enlarged...PERIOD! This is why I posted that link thread with the gas port chart. We already have what sizes gas ports SHOULD be per barrel length, gas system & caliber. A 16” barrel with 5.56 & midlength gas system should be either .0781” or .0810”...this is of course +/- a couple thous. My point here is having this problem, and knowing your port is already .081”, then the problem is NOT gas port size. The largest port size is for 7.62x39 @ .125”. I only had to enlarge a 16” barrel in 7.62x39 short stroking to .093” to eliminate the problem.

I hope that makes it a bit more clear. Also another reason pin gauges are unnecessary. The port sizes need not be to within .0001”! A .078”, 079“ will function within the same parameters.
 
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Dan, let me be more clear in the thinking there. It’s a good idea to have a general reference of the size of your gas port, IN CASE a problem arises. Because there is a point where it just AINT the gas port! If your 16” midlength gas barrel in 5.56 already has the larger .081” gas port, then it should not be enlarged...PERIOD! This is why I posted that link thread with the gas port chart. We already have what sizes gas ports SHOULD be per barrel length, gas system & caliber. A 16” barrel with 5.56 & midlength gas system should be either .0781” or .0810”...this is of course +/- a couple thous. My point here is having this problem, and knowing your port is already .081”, then the problem is NOT gas port size. The largest port size is for 7.62x39 @ .125”. I only had to enlarge a 16” barrel in 7.62x39 short stroking to .093” to eliminate the problem.

I hope that makes it a bit more clear. Also another reason pin gauges are unnecessary. The port sizes need not be to within .0001”! A .078”, 079“ will function within the same parameters.
Good points, but I'd like to expound a little bit about gas diameter. Port size is critical. Early on, Colt changed the spec for the M4 from .063 to .0625. In a carbine gas system, Colt determined .0005 inches made a difference.

The higher the pressure at the port, the more critical port size becomes. The gas port controls the flow of the gas into the gas system. It does not regulate pressure. Flow is determined by pressure & port size. The greater the pressure or the greater the port size, the greater the gas flow.

The closer the gas port is to the chamber, the greater the pressure. The greater the pressure, the greater change in flow with each incremental change in gas port diameter and length. Therefore, a change of .0005 inches in diameter of a gas port in a carbine gas system will have a greater impact on gas flow than the same change would on a rifle length gas system where bore pressure is much lower.
 
Just out of curiosity, what kind of stock do you have on the gun?

This may sound stupid, but I had the same sort of problems, albeit a bit more random when I put an A1 stock on the gun and used an A2 stock screw. The A1 screw is shorter, and the A2 screw is long enough, it pokes through the back of the tube (when you dont have the spacer on there) and stops the bolt from going rearward enough in the tube to cycle properly.
 
David Hoback: That makes complete sense to me. Port size is a critical part of this equation that is really easy to determine before a build and very difficult to figure out once the FSB is pinned into place. I definitely will be getting pre approval from the community here at THR before my next build!

MistWolf: Thank you for the great explanation. This is what I see at the range and read online. 20” guns just always seem to work. It makes sense that a rifle length systems would be more forgiving of slight variations in port size. After reading all these posts I’m can see why this won’t be fixed by simply using a lighter buffer spring.

AK103: Great avatar picture. Otto Skorzeny was a fascinating character. I have an A2 stock on the gun with the nylon spacer so the screw should not be protruding.

Thanks again for all the help!

Dan
 
Looking up recorded information, BCM, the OP’s barrel manufacturer, specs the gas port at .076 which should run any quality ammo.
 
If you haven't checked already, make sure the pin that secures the gas tube in the gb/fsb made it through the hole in the tube. On my last build I missed that and the roll pin obstructed the gas path enough to cause symptoms similar to what you were experiencing.
 
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