AR15 questions

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Warren

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Never mind that I am in California, right now. I will be moving soon.

I'm not totally sure I want an AR15 and I should say I like the looks of the FAL more but it seems the AR platform is a lot more flexible. Plus I have no practical experience with any sort of EBR so basing what I buy on how they look is not the smartest plan.

I would want a quality rifle and would be willing to spend $1000-1500 on it.

Now I would want something that needs no tweeking out of the box.

This will be for general fun shooting, and maybe HD but not competition. Though if the rifle is more accurate than I am I won't mind.

I think 16 or 20 inch barrel would be best.

I don't like the looks of all those rails that many ARs have on them, so I don't need those. But maybe a flattop for optics?

I'm also not fond of the look of the adjustable stocks, but it may be useful for me to have one as I am 6'3 and the rest of my family is at least a foot shorter. So being able to make the rifle fit them is more important than the fact I don't like the looks of the thing.

Also as time goes on and the budget allows I will want to buy different caliber uppers that will fit on the gun with little or no problems.

I'll want the standard .223 plus something that does well at long range like 6.5 Grendel and a brusing pumpkin buster like .458 Socom just so I can use one gun for multiple types of shooting and maybe an upper that makes for a great HD platform. This one could have a rail for a light.

So any ideas of what I should get?

Thanks,

Warren
 
Sounds the AR give you everything you want. Most here will say go with Bushmaster, Rock River, DPMS, Armalite, Stag/CMT just to name a few of the manufactures that make quality rifles. Personally I have a Rock River Elite CAR A4. No funky rails all of the place, 16" with mid-length gas system, flat top, collapsible stock. Paid less than 1k including sales taxe. That would leave you ~500 for another upper or some ammo to get started, or a good scope if you want it.

Oh yeah - you'll have 'build it yourself' crowd chiming in as well. You can buy the upper and lower separately and save some cash. Or you can buy a stripped lower and literally put everything together yourself. If you don't care how long it takes, you can shop around and get the sales and save $. But watch lead times and shipping times and costs too if you go that route. What you think you will be saving might get eaten up in shipping costs if you don't watch those.

For example: I priced all the stuff I needed to build a RRA rifle just like what I bought. Same 2-stage match trigger, same everything. I could have saved around $170 of the top, but then add back in shipping, FFL transfer fee for the lower, lead times, etc, etc and suddenly the 'savings' weren't that great.

Shop around and do what you want - there are so many options for AR's out there that your head will sping
 
Thanks,

My head is spinning with all the options what I need to make sure of is that whatever brand I get it can swap out uppers without any work having to be done.

So a quality brand that has the best chance of being compatiable with a wide range of other brands uppers.
 
So a quality brand that has the best chance of being compatiable with a wide range of other brands uppers.
Click to expand...

Generally true. Any of the rifle makers in the price range you are talking about will be fine as far as interchanging stuff goes.

I'm partial to Rock River Arms though I have a Bushmaster too.
 
Thanks for the replys,

Almost all of them.
Click to expand...

Almost? Which brand(s) I should watch out for?


I have been reading alot and there seems to be a lot of Go Colt/No Colt friction out there. Coltists v. Anti-Coltists, it is hard to decide without any experience in ANY platform who is in the right.

Is Colt the top dog in this show or have they been surpassed? Or does Colt = RRA = Bushmaster = Armalite?
 
I would worry less about brand and more about buying from a dealer who stands behind his product and will work to make sure you are happy. Let him sweat the details over which brand and you can concentrate on the features you want on the rifle.
 
I'm not totally sure I want an AR15 and I should say I like the looks of the FAL more but it seems the AR platform is a lot more flexible. Plus I have no practical experience with any sort of EBR so basing what I buy on how they look is not the smartest plan.
Click to expand...

A FAL? If you aren't a fan of the .223 round, you may want to consider one in .308. DPMS makes an LR-308 in about four customizable setups for around $1200. These are "out of the box" sub-MOA rifles. I work with two guys that got in on a Group Buy off of Sniper's Hide. Superb fit and finish.

I've got a .223 DPMS Panther Southpaw that I customized from the "factory". It'll print 1/2 MOA groups all day long with good ammo. Haven't had to use their customer service, but I hear that they are "ok" to deal with on average.

Rock River and Colt are have an excellent reputation, although opinions very on how much of the Colt price is paying for the name.

Don't fear the "EBR". Fear the amount of ammo you'll need to keep around as the darn things are just that much fun to shoot... :cool:
 
I have been reading alot and there seems to be a lot of Go Colt/No Colt friction out there. Coltists v. Anti-Coltists, it is hard to decide without any experience in ANY platform who is in the right.

Is Colt the top dog in this show or have they been surpassed? Or does Colt = RRA = Bushmaster = Armalite?
Click to expand...

The good news is that virtually ALL AR manufacturers these days are putting out good rifles. Colt offers a feature set and an ehanced QC program that isn't matched by any of the typical commercial manufacturers, but you'll pay for it. There have been numerous discussions on the subject, but it boils down to these essential features:
The Colt (model 6920) has a correctly sized forged receiver extension. B,A,RRA, etc. use extruded receiver extensions of the wrong external diameter.
Colt barrels are chrome lined and made of the proper steel alloy (4150) vs 4140 for DPMS, RRA, etc. though Bushmaster uses 4150. All Colt barrels are proofed and magnafluxed, as opposed to those of other makes that either do it in batches (Bush), or not at all (RRA, DPMS, etc).
Colt bolts are shot peened, tested with a proof load and then magnafluxed. Only LMT does this (and CMT on contract with certain vendors)
Colt carbines come with the proper extractor insert and spring, others do not.
Colts come with the proper M4 feedramps and a ramped barrel extension. B, RRA, etc. don't.
Colt has the technical data package and obviously builds their carbines to a strictly enforced quality standard (gov't contracts), other makers build their carbines to a commercial standard; that is to say, only the "standard" of what the end user will or will not put up with.

For range use, most users will never know the difference. After owning a slew of ARs, I am wholeheartedly convinced that there is no qualitative difference between Armalite, Bushmaster, RRA, and DPMS. Feature for feature there are differences, but the inherent quality is the same, IMO.

Colt (and to a great extent, LMT) builds a better M4, period. Whether the added $200-300 is worth it is a personal matter relating to one's budget and what one intends to do with the weapon. For self defense, I feel the Colt is well worth it. For a range/target gun, buy the AR that has the features you want, of any brand, at the lowest price you can find, and you'll likely be happy.

HTH,
vanfunk
 
Almost? Which brand(s) I should watch out for?
Click to expand...
AFAIK, the only times you have compatability issues with major parts is when you buy a very specific, special-purpose component. For instance, Sun Devil billet upper recievers will only work with Sun Devil lowers. Those, however, are specialty items.

For the type of buying you are doing (purchasing a stock rifle), you do not need to worry about this. Any RRA, Bushmaster, DPMS, Armalite, what have you, upper will work fine on a lower from another maker, and vice versa.

I own a RRA rifle and am VERY happy with it. I have a Bushmaster .22LR upper that I use with the RRA lower. I'm having some problems with it, but they seem to be related to the upper itself (.22 rimfire conversions can be twitchy) as opposed to how it mates up with the lower. I also recently bought a few Stag lowers and plan to build an upper for a "fighting carbine". I have absolutely no concerns about uppers and lowers interchanging smoothly.

The AR is designed to be modular. :cool:

Mike
 
For the requirements you listed the AR platform is the only choice . Honestly if you are going to have others of varying builds shoot it do tweak the stock , get a collapsing stock from a 3rd party such as magpul , voltar , or whoeaver ( where it has a cheekpiece and said cheekpiece works ( and in some cases does not move when you extend the stock ), over the standard one . As far as brand goes there are as many opinions as there are AR owners out there , but you will see overall less complaints with ( and in no particular order ) Stag , Bushmaster , Rock River or Colt. Stag builds components for allmost everyone and builds some complete rifles marketed under other trade names , such as the new Smith and Wesson rifles . RRA has built a good rep as has bushmaster , LMT is the icon among the build it yourself crowd for high quality . Point is Myself i would go ( again in no order ) Stag , RRA , or bushy . All of the above have fine customer service and are avalable anywhere if you shop a bit . Oh my ar you ask , its a 16" from RRA that is old enough it does not have a rollmarked logo .
 
RRA 16" varmint

would be a strong contender for you
flattop and free float barrel with a flat out beautiful wilson 2 stage trigger
I love mine!!!!!!!!
Oh yeah I own a DPMS .308 18" heavy barrel I am SOOOOO happy with that 1 also
 
Is Colt the top dog in this show or have they been surpassed?
Click to expand...

only to those who drink the Colt Kool-aid. Personally I can't see that they are worth the premium. Maybe for the military, but for the average Joe wanting something for the range and possibly HD - almost everything else will do the job just the same.

Also, doesn't Colt use a different pin size for mounting the upper and lower?


RRA 16" varmint
would be a strong contender for you
flattop and free float barrel with a flat out beautiful wilson 2 stage trigger
I love mine!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

+1 there - love my RRA as well.
 
Also, doesn't Colt use a different pin size for mounting the upper and lower?
Click to expand...

Nope. They've used .250" front pivot pins for years now. They have clung to the oversized hammer and trigger pins, but that is of insignificant disadvantage.

Is Colt the top dog in this show or have they been surpassed?

only to those who drink the Colt Kool-aid.
Click to expand...

As has been stated, the QA/QC processes and adherence to the TDP costs money. The modest premium in price for a Colt is well worth it for a defensive weapon. For a range blaster, probably not. Just want to be sure to get the point across that you're not "just paying for the name" as is so often repeated when the discussion includes Colt ARs.

HTH,
Brewer
 
Sounds to me that from the list of features you desire the only thing that will satisify you is the AR. It is not like you will be settleing,the AR is a fine system and lots of fun.
I understand the whole "build it yourself" crowd but there is lots to be said in buying a complete factory gun to start with and adding uppers and so forth after.
I also believe that for a all around multi pourpose gun the flatop is very much the way to go. If you want a ready to go out of the box gun I would recomend the Rock River with the upgrade National Match trigger installed in your factory gun or one of the Bushmaster models with their competition trigger installed at the factory. The stock military type trigger in many factory guns leaves much to be desired . Now usually I recomend the ROCK River National Match installed as a add on (simple 10 minute job the first time you do it, 5 minutes after the first time) but you requested out of the box goodness.
Not crazy myself about rails and such (on my gun) a flatop has worked well for all the stuff I ever wanted to mount.
I also like a fixed A2 stock over the adjustable jobs but they do have good use for smaller folks. The lower and stock goes for about $250-$325 so you could get one with a fixed stock and another with a adjustable for the small fry.
Sounds like you have thought out your options pretty well.
Make sure and get a Ceiner rimfire conversion to go with your AR. It is one of my most used AR goodies
 
I don't really think you can go wrong w/ any of the major players in the AR15 market. I have an RRA & the other is a Superior Arms/ CMMG and they've been great guns!
Good luck w/ your build ;)
 
Thank you everybody.

So why are the mil type triggers not that good? Just how much extra work does it take to get a good trigger into a rifle?
 
Standard triggers are fine for general shooting. They can be a little rough and heavy for precision target shooting. eg. I have a standard trigger on my 6.5 Grendel - I can shoot 1/2 MOA at 200 yards with it but it takes a bit of effort. If I had a better trigger I could possibly get under 1/2 MOA and shooting 1/2 MOA would be a bit easier.
 
Here's what you should do

only to those who drink the Colt Kool-aid
Click to expand...
Kool-Aid can be good.

I am not an AR person. The only one I had for a while in trade was a Colt Green Label Sporter II. I'd have to say it definitely was better than the Armalites/Eagle/Bushmaster rifles that I've shot. For starters it was more accurate with a chromed bore.

Avoiding the tacticool crap is a good start.

I'd recommend getting a Colt Sporter II of about the same vintage that I had. They can be had for a touch under $1000, and are about as close to an M16 as you'll get (unless you buy an M16). Additionally, they will gain value more so than any of the current crop of ARs.

I wouldn't be afraid to purchase a used one off of gunbroker or a forum, provided that the person has multiple happy customers, no negatives regarding the stated condidtion an item, and has provided good pictures of all sides of the firearm. Keep in mind that you will not have to pay sales tax for an out of state online sale. On a $1000 item this very well might cover the shipping and the transfer fee.
 
Okay, if I get the RRA varminter what do I do about back-up sights?

There is nowhere to put a front sight on that barrel.

I'm thisclose to buying one.
 
Warren said = Okay, if I get the RRA varminter what do I do about back-up sights?

There is nowhere to put a front sight on that barrel.

I'm thisclose to buying one.
Click to expand...

I've got a ARMS #40L (low profile) BUIS on my RRA and I'm extremely happy with it. But, you may want to consider the RRA Dominator II mount (built in rear sight) if you plan on using the EOTech. It was designed for the EOTech.

I had the Dominator mount on mine, but I've decided to go with the Aimpoint ML3... so I sold the Dominator mount. I've got a ARMS #22M68 now, for the Aimpoint.

I've got some pictures somewhere, if I can find them I'll post a pic of the Dominator mount on my RRA, before I sold it. This way you can see what it will look like, etc.

*found the picture... just ignore the 870... :)

ar870.jpg


The mount itself...

eotech_dom.jpg
 
Since you really like the look of the FAL, I'd pick up one of those first...

:)

Then I'd pick up an AR (and I'd probably get a RRA or Doublestar/J&T Distributing one)...

Forrest
 
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