Are 1911s these days finicky?

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shephard19

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There seems to be quite a few stories about lemon 1911s, I realize there are lemons of any type of gun, but you don't hear nearly as many stories about unreliable Glocks, as you do about 1911s, many of which cost a substantial sum of money, Kimber seems to be a main perpatrator. Is this because Glocks are the standard of reliability that all other autoloaders are now held to? Given the stories and reputation of the 1911 as being very reliable from its service during numerous American conflicts, I have kind of been taken aback and surprised about the number of 1911s reported with jamming problems...
Has our perspective changed because our standards of reliability are higher than they were 20 or 40 or more years ago? Or has the manufacturing techniques or something else changed? Why does a 1911 these days often seem to need "custom tuning", to work right, whenever I here about any gun that needs "custom tuning" to work right that sends up big red flags for me(wondering if there is a basic design flaw), especialy if I am depending on the gun to help me protect my life and others. I am not intending to rag on the 1911, I love the way it feels in my hand and the way it looks and the way it shoots when I shot it, and the power of .45 ACP. I am just wondering what is the truth about their reliability, are they like AR-15s that need to be scrupulously cleaned to be reliable?
 
1- consider how many 1911s have been made...
2- tuning a 1911 is the first step in making it unreliable...
3- most people that work on 1911s don't know what they are doing...
4- screwed up 1911s keep turning up over and over like a bad penny to the dismay of MANY owners
5- oh well, ill let someone else give you the other 50 points

and no comment about the varied opinions about to be on here- glock vs 1911 is the ultimate can of worms
 
You really need to use the search function here to see how many gazillion times this gets posted -weekly.

Here's two observations about M1911 pistols.

First, there are literally dozens of manufacturers all over the world. In addition, each manufacturer makes & sells several versions of each sized M1911 pistol. Glocks pretty much come in the same 3 sizes and differs only by caliber.

Second, take a look at any 10 postings here about M1911 pistols. At least half of them are by someone looking to modify, soup-up or somehow change his M1911 pistol. Most of the time, the poster hasn't even owned it for very long and he/she already wants to add stuff to it. -If you have that many people wanting to mess with anything without experience, of course you are going to fudge it up.

If you seriously study the ~2,000,000 1911 pistols manufactured for the US Govt. in it's wars over the past 100 years, you will find that it has a proud history of service, reliability, accuracy and performance.
 
Actually I find the 1911s of today to be very reliable. I've owned a Kimber Pro Carry II, Taurus 1911B, and an STI Ranger II. They have all worked 100% out of the box. You will find that one person with a problem 1911 will post on multiple boards and swear that the make is no good because he is having problems.

I just bought the STI a couple of months ago and my Wilson 47D mags don't play well with it. Couldn't get JHPs to feed reliably out of the stock Wilson mags. These mags worked 100% in my other two 1911's. So I bought some Tripp conversions kits for two of the Wilson mags and they worked great. But I hated loosing one rnd out of each mag. So I bought 2 eight round Cobra mags from Tripp and they work just fine and feed JHP's 100% now. Is it the guns fault that the Wilson mags don't work well in it, I don't think so. I spent a little time and money to find what works best in my gun with my choice of ammo. But other people would have had a fit if they would have had to do the same thing. Now the mag that came with the gun worked just fine with FMJ and JHP, but I wanted mags with a bumper pad. I installed a SA MSH with magwell on the Ranger II and needed the mags with bumper pads.

Now this is where a lot of the problems lie, the 1911's are probably the most customized guns there are! I put a MSH/magwell on mine and needed to find mags that would feed JHP's reliably. There are dozens of brands and types of ammo on the market and not all will work reliably with every 1911. Not the guns fault as they were designed to work with ball ammo. We as gun owners demand tightly fitted guns and the manufactures give us what we want and then we get upset when they give us problems. A gun doesn't have to be super tight to function reliably and shoot accurately. My Taurus 1911 was looser than my others and it was very close to the accuracy of my Kimber and STI, less than 1/4 in difference at 15 yards.

The modern production guns are built to a tolerance that gunsmiths could only dream about years ago. And for the the most part they function 100% if you leave them as they were manufactured. But 1911 owners just love to tinker with their guns and many don't know what they're doing. Do manufactures turn out bad guns, sure they do and all of them have. Kimber had a problem with it's external extractors and had to give up on them. But read any of the various makers forums and they all make duds. Kimber and Taurus seem to get the most bad mouthing, some deserved and some not. I also read about Springfield, Ed Brown, Les Baer, Nighthawk, etc. having problems with it's guns and customer service. All of them screw up sometimes, just human nature. As I read about problems guns I get the distinct feeling that some owners are their own worst enemies! At least that's my take on it.
 
Well first you have to start with the sources. Some people will tell you what they believe is true, i.e. 1911's suck, get yourself a Glock, because they like Glock. You'll also here the opposite as well. For some people a 1911 just isn't right for them so they'll tell you it isn't right for anyone.

Then consider that some people abuse their pistols and get offended when they malfunction. Next realize that EVERYTHING that is manufactured in this world, even top of the line products, will produce that one sour seed from time to time. Also some productions just plain suck.

After that consider that anything that has been around almost 100 years and has been re-produced, cloned and set up as the standard for shooting says something right there. Reputation, good and bad, means something.

Finally decide what it is you want, how much you're willing to spend on it, research it and decide if it's for you and chances are you'll be a happy camper.

My family and I own a Dan Wesson RZ-10, RIA 1911A1, Springfield Mil-Spec, Springfield in 9mm, STI Trojan 6.0 and a Kimber Custom (am I right on that one George?). All of them are just about flawless (everything has flaws, nothing is perfect and yes I'm nitpicking so I don't have too many people play Devil's Advocate on me) and they are all terrific pieces for what it is we intend to use them for.

Simply put, don't use peoples opinions as fact, just as guide lines, that's what this forum is for. Use our knowledge and experience to your advantage, read articles, test out some possibilites and good luck to you.
 
Ammo and magazines

prevent autos

from running

like sewing machines. :p


Pre morning coffee :neener:
 
Here is my observation. People are obsessed with accuracy. The old GI 1911's I've handled (admittedly only 2) could be called a little loose. It is my belief that they were originally built this way for the sake of reliability. A gun with super tight clearances is great for shooting groups, but isn't going to like getting dragged through the mud. I used to carry a Glock 23. I could pull the barrel out and stick a round in the chamber and practically rattle it around, the extra space allowing the pistol to run extremely dirty and still feed and fire reliably. the Para Ordnance SSP I traded the Glock for is much tighter, and I think that as a direct result of that, it will start to experience occasional failures to feed while it's hot and dirty (after about 200 rounds). The Glock never did that, even after being buried in sand overnight.

If in fact today's 1911's are less reliable than those of yesteryear (which I doubt) I would blame ourselves for demanding tighter and tighter tolerances because we have this idea in our heads that the gun isn't good enough if it's not shooting 1.5" groups at 25 yds.
 
I don't know what you're talking about. I've got 2. One was hand built in 1964 at the Springfield National Armory. It was built from parts from much older Army M1911 A1 pistols that were there for rework. As a hand fitted pistol, custom assembled for the Camp Perry National Matches, it is tuned for 230 gr RN FMJ (i.e. military ball) ammo. As long as I use it for what it was intended, it is 100% reliable.

My other M1911 pattern pistol is a Kimber Stainless II. This pistol is just as reliable.

Both are way more accurate than I am.

If you want your M1911 carry pistol to be reliable with defensive ammo, send it to Wilson, Kimber, or Springfield, along with all your magazines and 10 or so rounds of the type ammo you use, and have the pistol professionally tuned for that ammo.

I'm no expert, but I suspect that all of todays M1911s are designed to shoot round nose FMJ reliably out of the box.
 
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I'd guess that way over 95% of the reported problems with "modern 1911s" would be solved by purchase of decent magazines and/or an extractor made of the specified spring steel adjusted to spec.

Too many 1911 makers cut corners in these two specific areas.
 
Surgeon's creed. "The best way to kill your patient is to take a pretty darned good operation and try to make it perfect."

John Browning created a pistol a century ago that still does a pretty darned good job of placing large bore GI hardball into the center of mass of a target at close range. "Improve" it at your peril.

Tom
 
I have five 1911 pistols in four different lengths (3, 4, 5, and 6 inch barrels). All run reliably and are accurate.

The few times I have had issues, they were quickly traced to bad magazines or 'powder puff' loads that didn't generate enough recoil to effectively operate the action. I don't try to 'fix' bad magazines. I throw them in the trash where they belong.

In my experience, a good gun with quality magazines and ammunition will run properly.

A magazine isn't an accessory. It is a gun part. It never ceases to amaze me how many people will pay $1000+ for a pistol, then try to use the cheapest 'no-name' magazines they can find, and when the gun doesn't function as expected, they blame the gun.

I do have to agree with the other posters. Many people make 1911 pistols and when you have a number of suppliers doing it 'their way', some are bound to malfunction.

Bill.
 
Well, my experience has been limited in the 1911 platform.

I've got a Norinco 1911A1 that had a proper going over but no aftermarket parts. About as basic a 1911 as you'll find and it's been a gem. Not the smoothest trigger but no FTF or FTE, goes bang every time I pull the trigger.

I won't have any issues using this as my go to gun if things got bad :)
 
Hello

I am new here, I also happen to own a Kimber, since purchased I have had no major issues at all, 1 feeding issue traced it back to 1 out of the 3 mags I had at the time, It was a Kimber mag. Now I mostly use Chip McCormick mag's now and never have an issue.

I find that most people do not do enough trouble shooting when they have an issue, after 2 or 3 failures they automatically say the pistol is a piece of garbage and sell it off. In most cases all they have to do is read the directions and see that some pistols have a 200 to 300 round break in period like the Kimber and even Kahr(I know not a 1911) 2 great gun manufactures.

The internet can be a great tool but there are a lot of tool's using it and spreading personal opinions without having exhausted all their options.
 
I've got very limited experience with the 1911 platform, but I have had two, both Colts. One of them (A government model) years ago, I used for shooting with an IPSC club. I put thousands of rounds through that gun. It was stock out of the box, and I had a dozen or so GI magazines that I got out of a "for sale" box at the gun store. They all ran like a watch. What few malfunctions I had with that gun, I could trace to my reloads. Most of those were plain round nosed lead bullets. I can't tell you how often it malfunctioned but it wasn't very often.

I currently have a (as far as I know) stock out of the box 1991A1 that I got used. I had one problem with it jamming on the last round out of one of the magazines that came with it. I replaced that magazine and the problem went away. Now it works just fine.
 
I've got a few magazines that work well in all of my 1911's and one that doesn't. The first time one doesn't work it gets set aside, I may or may not try to tweak it into working.

Oil and lube are often neglected as well by some.
 
This is one topic I see on a regular basis. I feel as all have stated. The 1911 in most cases is an excellent platform.

Too many people "improve" it till it stops working.

I did that on my first 1911 30+ years ago and learned my lesson. Funny thing is, I do not have issues with my 1911,s. They just work.
 
The point is/was reliability

John Moses Browning developed a deceptively simple, completely reliable design. The reason it hasn't changed much over 100 years is that there's not much you can do to make it better. Sure, tinker with the details. Basic design changes -- no.

Nowadays we shoot 1911s because they feel great in the hand and consequently make us shoot better. The original concept, though, was practicality and it's never been beaten.
 
I have a Kimber and it functions just fine....

My father has a SA and it functions just fine....

No tweaking or "improvements" made as they both run just fine.

The only problem child I have ever had was a Browning Buckmark which was traded off after a 3rd trip to the factory to be fixed, but that is another story.
 
If there is a problem with the kimber 1911, someone should tell the LAPD swat team.
Click to expand...

Yep, Top right.
Custom TLE/RL II with night sights, kick ass right out of the box.
 

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