Are Colt's Dark Days Over?

[countertop]

As I've posted elsewhere, I am looking at purchashing my first 1911. One of the things that has driven me to this decision is the sheer pleasure I get from firing my Father In Laws early 60s Government Model (with some significant smithing compliments of the US Army Marksmanship armorers).

However, Colt no longer seems to be the leader in 1911 sales. As I've been trying to find out why (as well as ascertain whether its worth my time to purchase a Colt over a Kimber or Para Ordnance or Springfield, etc), I came across a rather shocking discussion of Colt's problems at Wikipedia.

How has Colt set out to resolve these problems? Are they still owned by the Commie Mommies, the state of Connecticut, the UAW and well connected Democrats, all of whom want to take away my guns??? Are they still basing future business growth on the advent of smart gun technology? Or have they seen the error of their ways and attoned for their sins during the Clinton Administration like Smith and Wesson has? Have they ejected their former management? Has the quality of their guns improved? Are they still abiding by the conssent decree the Clinton Administration tried to force on gun manufacturers?

 

[JohnBT]

www.colt.com/CMCI/history.asp

This should get you started.

When it comes to buying guns I look at each individual specimen until I find one that appears to be well made. Politics comes in a distant second to usefulness and reliability.

Have you looked at one of the Colt WWI reproductions?

John

 

[countertop]

Thanks!!!

That was a pretty good read and rather informative.

 

[cslinger]

Politics aside, the NRM Colts that are coming out of CT seem to be very well made guns. Very nice fit, finish and bluing as well.

Chris

 

[Standing Wolf]

How has Colt set out to resolve these problems?

Whatever Colt's doing, it hasn't produced visible results in gun shop cabinets that I've seen. Current production Colts are still second- or third-best guns with premium price tags.

None for me, thanks all the same.

 

[steveno]

I wasn't aware that Colt had seen the light yet so I would imagine that they are still in the dark. Once they stop sueing other gun manufacturers and concentrate on making guns then maybe the light come on

 

[Wildalaska]

Colt makes the finest 1911 today, bar none. The QC, fit, finish, reliability etc exceeds every other maker out there. This is an opinion shared by most pistolsmiths.

The trouble is that demand exceeds supply, as Colt is very busy making stuff for the Army

My favorite right now are the new Series 70 guns....awesome!!!!

WildlovesthemcoltsAlaska

 

[cslinger]

Whatever Colt's doing, it hasn't produced visible results in gun shop cabinets that I've seen. Current production Colts are still second- or third-best guns with premium price tags.

Everybody has there opinion so I am not disparaging your remarks but I for one have been very impressed with all the current generation NRM Colts I have played with. I own a very basic 1991A1 that I got for right about $500 and it has beautiful bluing, fit and finish and is reliable to a fault to boot. The ones I have played with in shops and through friends exhibet the same.

I am not a Colt guy, like WA(Sorry Wild), but IMHO Colt is putting out some very high quality stuff right now and many of the smiths I have talked to agree.

But then again like anything else you could have come across crappy examples or simply be impressed by different things. Even thought this sounds like a sarcastic response it is not meant to be I just wasn't sure how to word it otherwise.

Chris

 

[PJR]

I'd say Colt's dark days will continue.

Heck, even Smith and Wesson is making a nicer 1911.

 

[SHOOT1SAM]

For the BEST in Series 70 1911's, one need only look at Dan Wesson Arms.

Sam

 

[countertop]

Colt makes the finest 1911 today, bar none. The QC, fit, finish, reliability etc exceeds every other maker out there. This is an opinion shared by most pistolsmiths.

The trouble is that demand exceeds supply, as Colt is very busy making stuff for the Army

My favorite right now are the new Series 70 guns....awesome!!!!

Well this is very persuasive considering that I think your Alaskan Co Pilot take down gun is one of the finest tools I have ever laid eyes on. Now, if only I could come up with the kaaaa-ching for it (or simply a need to justify the expense other than simply rounding out the collection) I'd be a happy man.

As it is though, its nice to hear that QC has returned to Colt and the size of their military contract explains a lot. Still, their politics are F'd up something serious, but perhaps that can change too!!

 

[BluesBear]

Opinions are like you know what. Everyone has one and some smell worse than others.

Personally I still think Colt makes the finest mass produced 1911 pattern pistol in the world. Better than most custom jobs too.

If it ain't a Colt is just a copy.

But then what do I know. I have only been owning, shooting and working on them for 35 years now.

I ain't no expert.

 

[Fiero]

To me, Colt seems an awful like Harley Davidson. They go through a series of ownership wherein severe damage is done to product, reputation, and service by people who have little knowledge of the industry and the wants of customers. Nor do they care to do so. Colt is a commodity, the company is a commodity to be traded. Have you seen the plethora of garbage that Colt now lends it's name to? POS knives made in China, and the like? Oh, well I guess they saw that it was good for S&W, so be it.

I own several Colts. All of them are from periods of Colt's heyday years. But how does that effect me today. Well, I'm not sure. They are fine guns. But I often wish that the venerable company could have some decent stability such that I could feel better about them in general.

Some look at a Colt product and see pure garbage. Maybe not the product itself, bit the whole aggregate package. Colt nowadays is a heartless, gutless, good for no civilian company that has only one message.... Short term profits to boost the stock value, today. As such, it is probably good to only invest in a colt product which is completely mil-spec, and has drop-in parts available from a few secondary sources.

If Colt's dark days are over, it's just a point in a cycle, just a little less dark than yesterday, but not as much as tomorrow.

My NIB, unfired Woodsman will always stay a virgin, for I can never depend on Colt of today, if I were to decide to use it.

 

[Steelharp]

For the BEST in Series 70 1911's, one need only look at Dan Wesson Arms.

SHOOT1SAM... I know this is not an even or fair comparison, but I just had to tell this. I stopped by my buddy Sam's shop a couple weeks ago (gunsmith), and he was working on a Dan Wesson revolver. He looked like he was having a devil of a time with it. I asked him what the problem was, he said, "It's a Dan Wesson POS. That's the problem. If you ever buy one of these, I'll shoot you with it. And don't worry, it won't work."

 

[ruger357]

I bought a NRM last year. The quality fantastic inside and out, and it is a great shooter. Just glad I got it before the price increase.

 

[Billy Sparks]

I picked up a Colt XSE and like it. The reason I have a Kimber and Sig GSR is that it is so hard to find Colt 1911's. I prefer to handle one before I purchase it. I am holding out hope for the next Greensboro gun show, which is in (drum roll) two weeks.

 

[Island Beretta]

they have lost the first mover advantage..long ago..

imho, we currently have brand confusion as 'Colt' could be associated with 'anything' now..

 

[Kramer Krazy]

I don't have anything too recent, but I love all of my Colt firearms. Here's what I have experience with (I still own all of them):

1) Mid-70s, 70 Series Gold Cup that will eat any ammo I've tried and shoot quite accurately without any problems. Bought it used from my great-uncle when it only had about 200 rounds fired through it.

2) 1989 80 Series Government Model - A 21st b-day gift to myself. Reliable as hell, eats anything but semi-wadcutters. Never a single problem in roughly 4000 rounds.

3) Early 80s, 80 Series Officers Model ACP - Bought VERY used and had problems since the day I bought it. Rumour has it that this model and early production is prone to problems. I just can't get myself to get rid of it. 1911Tuner has it and believe he has it fixed.

4) 1990 AR-15A2 Sporter - Excellent weapon. First time out of the box, shot a 3/4" group at 100 yrds, bench rest with iron sights. I've never repeated this, though. Never had any problems with this firearm and is a LOT of fun to shoot....wife likes shooting it, too.

5) 1991 Anaconda in 44 Mag - Accurate, reliable, and my first revolver. Don't shoot it much, but will never get rid of it.

6) 2001 Python Elite, 4" blued - Bought it because I loved the early 60's model my father had stolen in the mid 90s and because of the quality of my Anaconda. Best trigger I've ever felt on any revolver in both SA and DA. I have no intentions of ever selling this gun, either.

Because of the pleasures and reliability that I've had out of my Colts (minus the Officers), I consider myself a Colt fan, but respect a lot of other manufacturers (I have 5 Rugers for their affordability and reliable functioning...and several other manufacturers products). I've been casually looking into some of the older Colts, like a Diamondback in 38, an old 1903, or even a pre-1900 SAA. I haven't ruled out a new Defender if this Officer's model keeps acting up. Are their darkdays over? I really don't know, but I have always liked their products.

 

[JohnBT]

"Have you seen the plethora of garbage that Colt now lends it's name to?"

Nope, I sure haven't and didn't know they were, but I did buy a WWI repro and it shoots and handles at least as good as it looks and it is a looker(especially compared to that S&W thing, although the new rollmark is a major improvement. See, there's room for improvement everywhere.) I would like to have a Colt logo padded stool or two for the workshop.

I don't see what the big deal is about gun companies selling stuff other than guns. S&W was doing it a hundred years ago and I have so much branded stuff I'll never wear it all out - Ruger logo gun rugs, Browning logo gun rugs and clothing, Remington coffee cups and ear plugs, S&W hats and pins, a Cooper t-shirt(my favorite) and on and on.

I just don't see why S&W and Colt shouldn't sell bikes and handcuffs and general stuff to police departments, the military and the man in the street. They are in business to make money and if it helps them stay in the gunmaking business I'm all for it. Meanwhile, there is a war on and the military work needs to come first.

I would like Colt to make an old-style lightweight Commander with a high polish blue finish. I'll even buy a bunch of the other stuff they're selling...

John

 

[HankB]

I have a bias against Colt's for a Series '70 jammamatic I bought new some years ago . . . not so much for the problems with the pistol (ANYONE can make a lemon) but for the runaround, misrepresentations, and outright LIES I got from their so-called service people as they avoided honoring their warranty.

This made me vow never to purchase another Colt product . . . though I HAVE kept my pre-Series '70 National Match pistol.

From what I've heard, Colt's has made some noticeable improvements to their handgun line's quality in the past few years . . . this is especially true if you happen to be hearing this from someone who's a Colt dealer or distributor.

Still, they seem to have rediscovered their heritage, and by most reports they are now making guns that usually work.

Are they still using plastic sights, plastic triggers, and plastic mainspring housings on their 1911s?

 

[JohnBT]

From the sticky in the Colt forum at 1911Forum:

Colt parts

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

We always seem to have questions about this. Mark posted this awhile back and I thought I would sticky them here for all to see.

MIM
sear
mag catch
disconector
plunger tube

CAST
safety lock
grip safety

FORGED
slide
receiver
barrel
slide stop

MACHINED from bar stock
hammer
all pins
bbl link
bbl bushing
trigger fingure piece
ejector
firing pin
firing pin stop
extractor


John Forsyth

 

[SpaceCowboy]

The only Colt I have seen in recent years that has really impressed me was the WWII repro. That was a NICE gun. If you buy a colt, it will certainly maintain its value for the sole fact that it says "COLT" on it. Do they make the BEST 1911 these days, I would bet the farm that they do not. Are they nice? Yes. But they are not the best today. The older ones are some of the finest I have seen. But their new 1911's have failed to impress me. They need to come out with some reasonably (for COLT) priced revolvers. I only own two colt autos, but all of my revolvers are colt and they are great.

 

[ryoushi]

For my money I chose another company besides Colt. The series 70 was very attractive to me and I'm sure it's a really nice pistol but it's unavailable in Calif. and is almost $400 more than a Springfield Milspec. The NRM is I'm sure a nice pistol, it's only $100-$200 more than a Milspec but features the series 80 safety and I was looking for something more faithfull to the 1911 A-1 design.

 

[VG]

Blah Blah Blah over CT "Commies" aside, Colt is far, far behind most modern firearms producers in terms of design and manufacturing technology.

I know a number of engineers, some quite senior, who have left in frustration over their chronic financial problems. I'm not sure if the M4 Carbine contract they have now will help.

 

[Wildalaska]

Colt is far, far behind most modern firearms producers in terms of design and manufacturing technology.

Ya mean like the fact that the 1911 was designed in...well 1911? Or is it the fact that Colts are being made the 'way they used to make em" by hand....

Hey no wonder they are more expensivve...they are crafted rather than just slapped together

WildmanualbridgeportAlaska