Are felons prohibited from owning muzzle loaders?

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Joe Demko said:
...and most felons were still convicted by state courts and you have entirely failed to address whether any of the 50 states would be all okey-dokey with a convicted felon walking about strapped with a Colt's Navy. In this, as with all discussions regarding firearms law, what the feds have to say isn't all that matters.
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Montana for one. Wyoming is number two.

Onward Allusion said:
I've read your other research/posts. You are scary good. Wow.
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I've got a lot of free time, and a black belt in Google-fu.:D Thank you for the compliment.
 
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Joe Demko said:
*sigh* Cite?
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You are kidding right? Show us where it is illegal for "a convicted felon walking about strapped with a Colt's Navy." in Montana. I'll even get you started on your quest, should you desire to prove me wrong:

http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/45/8/45-8-313.htm

45-8-313. Unlawful possession of firearm by convicted person. (1) A person commits the offense of unlawful possession of a firearm by a convicted person if the person purposely or knowingly purchases or possesses a firearm after the person has been convicted of:
(a) a felony for which the person received an additional sentence under 46-18-221; or
(b) an offense under the law of another state or of the United States that is equivalent to an offense that when committed in Montana is subject to an additional sentence under 46-18-221.
(2) A person convicted of unlawful possession of a firearm by a convicted person shall be imprisoned in a state prison for not less than 2 years or more than 10 years.
(3) A person who has been issued a permit under 45-8-314 may not be convicted of a violation of this section.
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Now, your challenge is to show us where, in Montana or Federal law, a Colt Navy 1851 cap and ball revolver, or replica of one, is a firearm. I showed you in post #9 where Federal law declares it NOT to be a firearm. Now, where DID I put that Jeopardy soundtrack....
 
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It doesn't matter if it is a firearm. It matters if it is a deadly weapon. Does Montana allow convicted felons to possess deadly weapons?

In Pennsylvania, for example:

Title 18 Pa.C.S.A 2301 "Deadly Weapon"

Any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or any device designed as a weapon and capable of producing death or serious bodily injury, or any other device or instrumentality which, in the manner in which it is used or intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or serious bodily injury.
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The state of Montana does not appear to agree with you. You are "some guy." I am the same. Before tucking that smoke wagon in his belt, a fellow would be very well advised to seek proper legal counsel. Especially if he is a convicted felon.
 
Joe Demko said:
The state of Montana does not appear to agree with you. You are "some guy." I am the same. Before tucking that smoke wagon in his belt, a fellow would be very well advised to seek proper legal counsel. Especially if he is a convicted felon.
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Too bad that the link you posted refers only to probation and parole. A person can be a convicted felon and not be on parole or probation. And, I notice you still fail to produce an actual statute.
 
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I quail before the might of the image you pulled from somebody else's website.

Can the fellow, especially a convicted felon, who goes about carrying a deadly weapon on your say-so depend on you for legal representation or remuneration for same?
 
Can the fellow, especially a convicted felon, who goes about carrying a deadly weapon on your say-so depend on you for legal representation or remuneration for same?
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Nope. And that has nothing to do with the argument at hand.
 
You're still "some guy." Not all convicted felons are on parole, but not all convicted felons ever get off parole, either. Perhaps people to whom this is a matter of personal importance should still find legit legal counsel rather than rely on your over confident pronouncements.
 
Perhaps people to whom this is a matter of personal importance should still find legit legal counsel rather than rely on your over confident pronouncements.
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I never argued otherwise or disagreed with that. I simply rose to the challenge that you placed before me.
 
There is an additional reseach step that needs to be taken. In many states the law is silent on the possession of a BP gun, thereby seemingly allowing possession, however felons are banned from possessing the black powder itself as it is an explosive. As a result, the felon may have the replica firearm, but is left with it as little more than a decoration as they may not possess the means to operate the BP firearm.
 
Does Montana allow convicted felons to possess deadly weapons?
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As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, somethign being illegal in an opt-in proposition, not an opt-out.

It's not about what the law allows, it's what it DISALLOWS.

Federal law disallows convicted felons from owning firearms. The Federal definition of a firearm does not include pre-1898 cartridge arms (but not replicas thereof) nor any muzzleloading firearm.

Your individual state MAY impose stricter regulations, but if they don't, then it's not against the law.
 
Alright guys, for the purpose of the question, assume that the person is a felon, did not harm anyone, and completed their full sentence already.

Someone on parole for the rest of their life is a whole other situation.

Lot of good discussion so far, thanks for the assists NavyLT, appreciate the answers.
 
xcheck said:
There is an additional reseach step that needs to be taken. In many states the law is silent on the possession of a BP gun, thereby seemingly allowing possession, however felons are banned from possessing the black powder itself as it is an explosive. As a result, the felon may have the replica firearm, but is left with it as little more than a decoration as they may not possess the means to operate the BP firearm.
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This law may only apply to TRUE black powder. The modern imitation stuff is more difficult to get it to explode. I remember when I was into hobby cannons years ago, you had to have a special license to sell real black powder(the stuff that smokes when you burn it) and I think you had to sign a book when you purchased it. Nearly all gunshops refused to carry it. There were strict rules to follow in the way you stored it because static electricity would set it off. You couldn't store it in plastic containers for instance.
 
Do you really think a judge and / or jury is going to go along with such a mere technicality? That's ultimately what it will boil down to. If any question arises, the person WILL go down on a weapons violation charge, considering that a black powder revolver is, for its first six shots, functionally no different than a modern single action cartridge revolver, and a muzzle-loading rifle is no different than a single shot cartridge rifle. How the law strictly defines a firearm is one thing. How the courts see it is another.
 
Rail Driver said:
TommyGunn said:
He also said that his wife owned a number of guns which he had unofficial access to.
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This is admission of yet another felony on both the wife and the husband's parts. Allowing a felon access (official or not) to firearms is a felony. Should a family member living in my home commit a felony and get convicted, I'd have to make certain ALL my guns are locked up and I would have to be the only one with access to the safe. Even then, it can get tricky dealing with different localities. While it's fully within the law, some jurisdictions are more strict in enforcement than others.
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This would depend upon local law and what is meant by "unofficial access" -- which was MY term, NOT G. Gordon Liddy's. What if Mrs. Liddy kept her guns secured in a safe, which might seem adequate to keep her incredibly dangerous ex-con Watergate burglar husband, G. Gordon, from handling her gun(s), except he knew how to "crack" the safe, given how notorious he is.
What if by "unofficial access" he meant he is law abiding and DOES NOT TOUCH the guns -- except in situations where his or his wife's life would depend on him grabbing one of HER weapons instead of his Colt Navy?
There's a lot of "wiggle room.";)
 
In iowa a felon can not have a black powder firearm either, be it a muzzle loader or what ever.
 
NavyLT said:
Terms defined.

Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the definitions in this section apply throughout this chapter.

(7) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.
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Not to bust chops but smokeless ammo is not an explosive. This would prohibit black powder but allow modern cartridge arms. Just poking fun at whoever drafted that law :neener:

Clutch
 
There's a lot of "wiggle room."
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Not if the ATF or local LEOs are knocking on your door. Just my $0.02, nothing more. I'm not a lawyer yet (still working on it) but I know enough not to push the envelope where the ATF is concerned (for the most part) and where firearms are concerned. Sure it's jurisdiction dependent. I should have specified, however in those jurisdictions in which it matters, they're not likely to be lenient.
 
I once asked a similar question about carrying a black powder revolver concealed. The answer I got in short is that there are no federal laws against concealed carry of ANY weapon but local and state laws are wide and varying. This is probably similar.
 
Unless there has been a change, it is legal for a felon to possess antique firearms under federal law. State or local laws may vary. (18 USC 921 specifically exempts antique firearms from the definition of firearms for that Title.)

Most states generally follow the federal law in regard to purchase and possession of firearms, but I know of no state or jurisdiction that makes any exception for antique arms or any distinction between antique and modern arms in their weapons carry laws, or in laws concerning armed robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, etc.

Jim
 
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