U.S.SFC_RET
Member
I reload for 44 Remington Mag, 41 Magnum and 357 Magnum so the question I have is are gas checks necessary for Magnum loads if I use coated Semi Wad Cutters?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
Are gas checks necessary for coated Magnum loads?
- Thread starter U.S.SFC_RET
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rjbmjb
Member
I don't use them in my 44 mag- I load powder coated cast 240 gr LSWC, but all are lower power loads (i.e 7 to 8 gr of Unique). You may need them for higher power loads, but I don't know how high you can go without gcs.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
I have loaded coated bullets in 44, 41 and 357 mag just as hot as jacketed with good results. Accurate and no leading.
FROGO207
Member
If the bullet is hard enough it should work with little to no leading. If the bullet is too soft you stand the chance of stripping the lead in the rifling off and just spitting a chunk of lead down the barrel .The gas check assures that the bullet turns in the rifling imparting spin without stripping lead.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
The fit of the bullet in your gun is critical. Some guns need slightly larger diameter cast bullets which are available from some makers. I would guess some offer the same options in coated.
I have heard of revolvers having cylinders that are under the bore size. To shoot lead bullets they must be reamed larger.
I have heard of revolvers having cylinders that are under the bore size. To shoot lead bullets they must be reamed larger.
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If the bullets fit the throats well, and the throats are not undersized, and the alloy is hard enough to handle the velocity, you won't need gas checks, but the same goes for uncoated lead as well.
You'll likely not have an issue. I shoot 16/17 BHN coated158 Gr SWCs in full power .357 with no issues.
You'll likely not have an issue. I shoot 16/17 BHN coated158 Gr SWCs in full power .357 with no issues.
243winxb
Member
Is "skidding" what you meant to say?
.308 Norma
Member
I load for the 44 Rem Mag, the 41 Mag and the 357 Mag too. And before I became so lazy and started buying commercially cast bullets for my revolvers, I cast my own. I always use gas checks on my own cast revolver bullets IF they are designed for a gas check. Some of my own cast revolver bullets are not gas check type, some are. But like I say, I've become lazy, so I buy commercially cast revolver bullets nowadays. And some of them have gas checks, some of them don't. But I don't know of a commercial source for gas check type revolver bullets that come without gas checks.
So I guess my answer is - if the bullet is designed for a gas check, then yes I use a gas check on it regardless of how the bullet is lubed. But if the bullet is not designed for a gas check, I don't know how I'd install a gas check on it anyway, so it's a moot point.
...I don't know how I'd install a gas check on it anyway, so it's a moot point.
FYI.
There are die sets available for making gas checks on a single stage reloading press for use on plain base bullets. Aluminum soft drink cans and copper of similar thickness are the source of material. Installation is similar as regular gas checks
I've dabbled with them a little with no adverse effects. I can't say definitively they prevent leading though. I have not pushed the velocity of plain base gas checked bullets yet.
243winxb
Member
Handguns-
No gas checks are needed when using bullets of the correct hardness. Bullets of very soft alloys may slump and/or skid in the barrel on firing. Even when sized to the correct diameter.
The bullet must be designed to accept a GC.
Swaging a GC on to a plain base, may cause problems?
Lyman has said sizing down more than .003" in diameter will hurt accuracy. This may apply also to the lead displaced by the GC.
Corbin Swaging said, a copper jacket/lead core, when swaged smaller than .005" , produces a core loose inside the jacket. This happens because there is more spring back of the copper.
The GC would be loose and separate on the way to the target, unless its a crimp on type.
I have use GC on 30 caliber rifles. Never on 44, 357 mags.
Skinnedknuckles
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To answer the original question, I have had good success with coated lead bullets (Missouri Bullet Co. Hi-Tek coated) in .357 Magnum at velocities up to 1600 fps in my rifle and 1200 fps in my revolver with good accuracy and no leading or other problems, so IMHO you can use plain base coated bullets as a substitute for gas checked lubed bullets at .357 Magnum velocities. I can't speak to .41 or .44 Magnum.
.308 Norma
Member
Actually, I have heard of of those die sets for making gas checks for installation on plain base bullets. I probably heard of them right here on this forum. But seeing as how I don't have any of them, and have no intention of getting any of them, I still don't see how I'd install a gas check on a bullet that wasn't designed to accept it. So for me personally, whether or not to use a gas check on a non-gas check type bullet is still a moot point.
.308 Norma
Member
That's what I've been trying to point out.
I don't know, but I'm not about to try it.
Pretty easy to do even at low speeds, unless you're just fussing over grammar.
I have shot coated at low, medium, and high speed with no leading issues. You would have to push them hard enough to strip the rifling to make them lead since the coating has to be broken.
I suppose if they are a lousy fit they might lead at normal pressures/velocities. Dunno.
I suppose if they are a lousy fit they might lead at normal pressures/velocities. Dunno.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I agree, I shoot 18 BHN coated 158gr SWC bullets in full power .357 Magnum loads with no leading at all.
wbbh
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There are a lot of variables, I have loaded .45 Colt bullets from one company and they never leave any lead. My 9mm load using a bullet from the same company, with the same coating, leaded up several pistols and put the first keyhole I have ever seen in person. The 9mm bullet has a large lubrication grove. The same load with a bullet from another company that has no lubrication grove does not lead with the same load, just under 4 grains of TiteGroup.
You mean like this?
Or this?
Here's a third:
My point being that the coating does get broken, although it's not likely to cause any problems for high velocity applications (to a point).
Edited to add proper picture.
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I have fired thousands of cast lead bullets in .44 Mag, and a few thousand in .357 Mag. None used gas checks. None caused leading. None were harder than 13BHN. All were sized for the gun—at least a tight slip fit in cylinder's throats and at least 0.001" over the actual groove diameter.
A good coating should be able to do at least as well.
A good coating should be able to do at least as well.
U.S.SFC_RET
Member
Thank you for all the responses. Question answered.
The calibers I reload for.
45 Colt
44 Remington Magnum
41 Magnum
357 Magnum
Glad I don't have to use gas checks.
The calibers I reload for.
45 Colt
44 Remington Magnum
41 Magnum
357 Magnum
Glad I don't have to use gas checks.
Yea, those are ugly for sure. The facts behind those would be interesting.
Hopefully U.S.SFC_RET will update us with results later.
What would you like to know about them? I fired them into some water jugs to test powder and Hi-Tek coatings. There's a thread here about it somewhere.Yea, those are ugly for sure. The facts behind those would be interesting.
Hopefully U.S.SFC_RET will update us with results later.
Are those bullets pictured, Hi TeK coated or Powder coated (paint)?
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